Smoke at start up, need mechanic recommendations in SoCal

[lvevo]

When I start my P5 after it was been sitting for 4 hrs, puffs white smoke for 10 seconds or so. After searching the forum, I think maybe it needs a valve adjustment(I don't think shims have been checked in 130k miles) and maybe valve seals. Going to do compression test soon and maybe a leak down as well. Any other opinions are welcomed. I'm not going to tackle this job so I need a good mechanic recommendation in the riverside, california area.

 

[lvevo]

forgot to mention that I have replaced the PCV valve and oil pressure switch.

 

[digitalslacker]

FYI my smoking got worse the longer I let it go. Compression test came back good. After the engine swap turned out it was rings going bad.

 

[Preferio]

Valve stem seals... Every FS I've had has smoked after sittinf for a few hours. The only one that doesn't is the one that I just completely built.

 

[lvevo]

FYI my smoking got worse the longer I let it go. Compression test came back good. After the engine swap turned out it was rings going bad.

Yeah I'm finding that out now

Valve stem seals... Every FS I've had has smoked after sittinf for a few hours. The only one that doesn't is the one that I just completely built.

I was hoping it was not the valve stem seals. Do you think it is worth it to pay and have them replaced, or should I look at getting a used head?

 

[Preferio]

Yeah I'm finding that out now



I was hoping it was not the valve stem seals. Do you think it is worth it to pay and have them replaced, or should I look at getting a used head?

Have the head gone through with a machine shop and have the seals renewed at the same time.

 

[lvevo]

Also another thing, the smoking started maybe 2k miles after the timing belt change which included new cam seals. I also did a seafoam treatment at the same time. It seems like the machine shop work is going to cost me .

 

[sparkstyl]

I have the same problem plus burning oil like no tomorrow. Had a quote for a valve job and they wanted 2500 for it... Thank god I didnt do it because my friend looked at it and said its the bottom end of the engine. Take the hose off the pcv valve and if you got smoke coming out it like all get out its bottom end. Went to the dealer and a new engine is 2400... a bargain compared to the valve job quote.

 

[ccrunner2011]

I have the same problem plus burning oil like no tomorrow. Had a quote for a valve job and they wanted 2500 for it... Thank god I didnt do it because my friend looked at it and said its the bottom end of the engine. Take the hose off the pcv valve and if you got smoke coming out it like all get out its bottom end. Went to the dealer and a new engine is 2400... a bargain compared to the valve job quote.

That's ridiculous unless they were building the head for high performance... If they were just machining and seating new valve seals it shouldn't even touch a grand...(boom02)(boom02)

I just had a full head rebuild (seals and all) plus honing of all 4 cylinders, crank polish, piston work and rod press, and machining done and all the parts for it @ 700$ from a local machinist - Granted we've known the guy for years and he's done a lot of other work for us so it may be cheaper than most, but you can still find it cheaper then 2500.(2thumbs)

 

[lvevo]

I'll look into getting a quote on the head.

On a side note, when I did the timing belt, the cams were like 2 teeth off alignment, would that prevent the smoking on start up? This all started after the timing belt job and seafoam treatment. Just wondering if those two things caused it or speed up the process.

 

[lvevo]

Ok so the smoking has been controlled by putting the car into drive then quickly putting it into neutral. When I start my car the revs pick up to 2500,and after putting it into drive, they settle down at 2000 in neutral. No smoke at 2000 rpm.

My question is what could have caused my revs to go to 2500 rpm? This all happen after the timing belt job.

 

[pcb]

I remember reading about this on the forum (I forget where it is,... I'll post the link if I find it)

Apparently our cars (FS engine) are bad for the oil rings on the pistons becoming stuck. At start up, the rings are cold and shrunk and not sealing against the cylinder walls. With the high rpm at start up, it sucks tons of oil past the oil rings into the combustion chamber and smokes like hell.

He found this out by removing the spark plugs before starting the car and there was no oil in the cylinders. If the oil seals are leaking, the oil drips into the cylinders while the car sits. He replaced the plugs then started the engine for just a few seconds then shut it off right away then removed the plugs again and found the cylinders full of oil.

After the car warms up the oil rings expand and begin sealing again.

Apparently there isn't enough "oil drains" to properly feed the oil around the oil seal and they get sticky then seize up.

The high startup rpm create huge manifold pressure which sucks the oil past the rings. That's why dropping the RPM's helps control the burning of oil.

 

[lvevo]

Pcb, makes perfect sense now, thanks. I was also wondering if maybe the high mileage Mobil 1 was becoming too thin at operating temps and maybe leaking into the cylinders through the valve seals?(I know long shot there)

Before my timing belt job, the rpms did not jump up so high, so I guess I did something wrong in the process? I know the cams were like 2 teeth off timing. The car felt like new after the service with a slight bump in power and mileage too.

 

[pcb]

Maybe you could pull the plugs and check for oil in the cylinders like the guy did,.. before and after startup.

Both the valve seal or ring jobs are huge and separate. It's worth the effort to find out for sure. Maybe you can see into the cylinders enough to check for oil. I know they have those cameras that can fit through the hole to see,.. they aren't too much money now.

I can't find that damn thread,.. I should have book marked it.

 

[lvevo]

Pcb, yeah I know what you mean about the threads. I look at other sites too and you forget which ones you saw the info from. I remember reading that maybe the injectors were dirty and "washing" the oil onto the top of the piston. But the drop in rpms at startup debunked that idea. Going to do as you suggested and report back.

 

[pcb]

I'm just guessing here but,... I kinda think if the oil seals are stuck and gummed up with crap, maybe seafoam may slowly dissolve it away over time if left in the engine.

The seafoam site says that you only have to drain the oil if it's all dirty from dissolving all kinds of crap throughout the engine. If the oil is clean, you can leave it in there indefinitely.

I suppose if the the oil ring is completely sealed in with lacquer type build up it may not help (like a completely clogged fuel injector,.. the seafoam has to flow through the injector to clean it)

 

[pcb]

I don't know about your RPM issue just that the guys said if they quickly put it in gear (automatic) or road the clutch to bring the RPM's down it make a huge difference in the amount of smoke.

 

[lvevo]

Pcb, yeah I thought the seafoam could have "eaten" the valve seal to allow oil on top the the piston. I was hesitant to use it again in the oil, but have used it in the fuel and through the vacuum lines. I guess I can give it another try and see what happens.

Another thing I also did was replace the pcv valve with the factory one, the smoking stopped for 2 days and came back.

 

[pcb]

Check the seafoam website,.. it's not supposed to eat rubber. I remember hearing that it can foul plugs too but I dunno,.. I'll try to find out.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/

I use seafoam regularly before and after an oil change, I'm sure it is helping to keep my oil seals (and everything else) gum free.

Just guessing here but if it is your oil rings, then it could put huge pressure on the pcv valve and either wreck it or foul it quickly. Maybe pull it off and check it. (takes two minutes)

 

[lvevo]

If the pcv valve is broken, how is that going to look? I guess blow into the T?

Oh and I think the plugs can be fouled by seafoam, that's why I have an extra set of low price cooper ones to run with the seafoam.