?S about pistons and rods.

[satyr36]

subbin

 

[boostfreak]

so does anyone know where i could get some for the drop and play?
thanks!

 

[DarkAngel]

Any vendors here offer them for a good price? I am on a budget and need to know before I make a decision. ^^^^

 

[dandan2]

right now the stock size k1 pistons are on backorder. u can find them if u look hard enough. but no matter what u want to rehone ur cylenders. do things right the first time, u dont wanna do a forged build twice, its expensive enough the first time around.

 

[dandan2]

ive wondered about cryo treating my internals, i dont know if anyone on here has done it, but if youre opening the engine its WAY less money than forged internals. the question is how effective it is.

my guess is that u havnt seen the size of our stock rods, they are literally the size of ur pointer finger.

 

[Outlawstar98]

TOOTH PICKS!

Thats what I like to call them. LOL! I honestly hate when people say they can handle 10psi safely, I will ALWAYS doubt that. If they can bent at 6psi... they suck in my book. haha

 

[justanothermp5]

wiseco and pauter FTW!!
i understand why people go with K1, cuz they are cheaper, but i never heard anything about them , ive heard people using pauter rods in numerous cars not just the protege so i figured i couldnt go wrong with them

ive had that combo in for around 5k miles, i didnt get s*** balanced, i did get them 8.5:1 CR and .020 over though, everything is doing fine so far!

 

[Outlawstar98]

K1's are great for what most people do to the protege. Pauter is kinda overkill IMHO hahaha. But if you want to pay the big bucks for them im not going to stop ya. haha The K1's are rated for about 350+ HP, and I HIGHLY doubt anyone (well 99% of you) will ever go that high. K1's are great for the price and they dont have really any issues at all.

If you get the K1 long rods with Wiseco pistons it Improves rod ratio from 1.467 to 1.491, A higher rod ratio cause the pistons move from TDC slower, the entire bottom end absorbs less mechanical stress. Which is a GOOD thing But IDK how much HP the longrods can handle.

 

[dandan2]

K1's are great for what most people do to the protege. Pauter is kinda overkill IMHO hahaha. But if you want to pay the big bucks for them im not going to stop ya. haha The K1's are rated for about 350+ HP, and I HIGHLY doubt anyone (well 99% of you) will ever go that high. K1's are great for the price and they dont have really any issues at all.

If you get the K1 long rods with Wiseco pistons it Improves rod ratio from 1.467 to 1.491, A higher rod ratio cause the pistons move from TDC slower, the entire bottom end absorbs less mechanical stress. Which is a GOOD thing But IDK how much HP the longrods can handle.

im going with the long rods. and im pretty sure the k1's are rated for more then 350 hp. correct me if im wrong

 

[Outlawstar98]

oops, you are right, its 400HP... LOL!
"K1 Technologies Connecting Rods

5.315" factory stock length
Can reliably support 400 hp which is more than the factory transmission's limits
ARP 2000 bolts"

But thats NOT for the long rods, thats for, as you can tell the stock factoy length. Its quoted from crossover auto. The Longrods dont have the 400HP, so im assumeing they hold more since it puts less stress on the bottom end.

 

[dandan2]

and thats reliably, we drive msp's so reliability is out the window. lol j/k my msp has only left we stranded once.

 

[Outlawstar98]

Left me stranded twice, Once for LSD, and once for Blown motor. But that "reliably" is BS, cause at 400HP that tosses in ALOT fo transmission work that has a chance to blow. lol!

 

[dandan2]

sam did say that its way past the transmitions limits. ima stop threadjacking though. ima make my build thread and we can talk there lol

 

[Outlawstar98]

Im going to make a build thread... As soon as sam gets me my parts! LOL!, my block he got me isnt even in the machine shop yet. Still waiting on rings for the pistons now haha.

 

[XoX1de]

I only rehoned the cylinder walls. As for balancing, inline 4 balance is different than v6 or v8 that requires bob weight. inline 4 crankshaft is balanced alone with flywheel and pressureplate + crank pulley. without piston and rod attached. so if you ever removed a stock crank you will see theres drilled hole on counter weights. that means its already balanced at factory. as for piston and rod, they must weight all same. so when 2 piston go up and 2 go down the harmonic imbalance cancel each other. Wiseco and K1 rod are all factory weight matched to +/- 1gram, which is better than stock stuff.

I check the stock piston and rod assem, its +/- 3g off... but they are lighter than forged part. Unless you rev your engine to 8000+rpm, theres no need to balance the crank asembly

 

[03.5MSP]

Just be careful on the whole long rods thing, the stress applied to the bottom end will stay the same, but the horizontal "stress" applied to the sides of the cylinder walls will be reduced because the angle is changed. Also because the long rods spend more time at TDC and take longer to move away from TDC, there might be more chance for detonation.... Kicker22705 was pinging at 11psi with long rods, and he was running a standalone.

 

[MSP 2 K20]

I only rehoned the cylinder walls. As for balancing, inline 4 balance is different than v6 or v8 that requires bob weight. inline 4 crankshaft is balanced alone with flywheel and pressureplate + crank pulley. without piston and rod attached. so if you ever removed a stock crank you will see theres drilled hole on counter weights. that means its already balanced at factory. as for piston and rod, they must weight all same. so when 2 piston go up and 2 go down the harmonic imbalance cancel each other. Wiseco and K1 rod are all factory weight matched to +/- 1gram, which is better than stock stuff.

I check the stock piston and rod assem, its +/- 3g off... but they are lighter than forged part. Unless you rev your engine to 8000+rpm, theres no need to balance the crank asembly

Some points you stated need to be corrected for those wishing to have something more than a thrown together motor.
What you did by putting the internals on to the stock crank was basically put a new tire on a wheel using the old wheel balance weights for your old tire and saying it's balanced when it's way off.

Simply doing a static balance (just scaling the rods and pistons) is simply not enough. A dynamic balance (where the crank is spun in motion) with the weight of the rods and pistons factored in AND matched to the pairs of cylinders that go up or down on each engine revolution is the proper way and reason why you need to balance any engine that you add forged internals to.

Also, the crank pulley/harmonic damper and flywheel are balanced independently of the rotating engine assembly since the FS engine is an internally balanced design.

Just be careful on the whole long rods thing, the stress applied to the bottom end will stay the same, but the horizontal "stress" applied to the sides of the cylinder walls will be reduced because the angle is changed. Also because the long rods spend more time at TDC and take longer to move away from TDC, there might be more chance for detonation.... Kicker22705 was pinging at 11psi with long rods, and he was running a standalone.

I think it was something do to him running a Microtech. I read where JDM Sam had a similar tuning issue where he discovered something with the Microtech tuning interface.

 

[dmention7]

So at what point do the various stages of machining the block and balancing the internals start to have diminishing returns for someone who just threw a rod and decides to go forged, but with modest power goals? In other words if someone is approaching this as a "repair, but with upgrades" project as opposed to building the motor for the express purpose of building the motor?

Also, when it comes to over-boring the cylinders, is the main point there to get the cylinder walls back in a true precision round bore or is there another purpose as well?

 

[justanothermp5]

boring the cylinders is pretty much just to get a round bore, most of the time its done when the cylinders have to much taper
u can do it to increase displacement, not by much, but if your trying to get as much power out of the block as possible i guess .020 over would give u a few extra hp? not sure
i did it because i didnt want to have to take the block out, measure the taper, and then order the pistons and wait 3 weeks for them to get here
i just ordered .020 over and had it bored out, much less down time that way

 

[XoX1de]

"With inline four and six cylinder engines, and flat horizontally opposed fours and sixes (like Porsche and Subaru), all pistons move back and forth in the same plane and are typically phased 180 apart so crankshaft counterweights are not needed to balance the reciprocating components. Balance can be achieved by carefully weighing all the pistons, rods, wrist pins, rings and bearings, then equalizing them to the lightest weight. "

I wonder how you do you balance the engine dynamicaly...