Rear brake bias?

JunkPunch

Member
I just had to replace my rear brake pads on my 2002.5 P5 at about 23K miles. The strange part is that the rear wore out before the front. Also strange, the outside pads were down to the metal, while the inside pads had about 1/3 left. But that's a different issue.

I know this car has EBD, but is there a way to adjust the brake force distribution?
 
the car has greater rear brake distribution than the front... even for non-ABS models... this is also why the european versions have the bigger rear disc brakes while the front sizes can vary
 
Yes, that is backwards, especially for a FWD car. That's what is confusing to me. I don't have any problem with the car having a rear brake bias if that's the way it is designed, but if it's not then I'd like to fix it.
 
So, it doesn't make sense that there would be a rear brake bias. Otherwise the front rotors wouldn't be vented while the back were solid. If anything, that would suggest a front brake bias (which is normal).

I'm guessing this is just a function of the EBD. I'm not sure how the EBD decided where the brake force goes, but maybe it's just the way I drive, or the load, or who knows what.
 
I think its cool because we have less brake dive, hehe.

I think the MSP has the European Protege brakes, they're a fraction of an inch bigger in diameter and a little thicker.
 
my back brakes had been clunking for a couple days. Took it to the dealership. They said that the Pro5 brakes in the rear are actually the wrong size for the vehicle (dont know why mazda did that) anyway they went ahead and put in the NEW "MODIFIED" size as they said, for FREE. ha ha new brakes after 1 year is good :D

BlueEmPee5
 
the brakes are not the wrong size... the pads MAYBE... yes MAYBE... depending on clearances on YOUR rear brakes, they maybe the wrong size... a TSB was issued because the rear pads were too thick and wore out too fast

BUT, the rear brakes STILL has more bias than the front... to reduce nosediving... hence why on the non-sport european models, the front brakes are the same size as ours, but the rear brakes have bigger calipers (same as the msp's) but same rotor size as ours... the proportioning valve is the same for their cars as ours... on the cars with the big front brakes (like the msp and european sport model), the brake booster and master cylinder are bigger... but it's only very slight... the difference is really because of ABS standard on those cars (you can't get it without)

our cars have the same brakes as the sport20... so interesting enough, the europeans get the better brakes, but the japanese get the better engine yet at the same time they get shafted with auto tranny only for the fwd sport20 (you have to get 4wd to get manual).. it's one of those things manufacturers do to restrict power output on the car... kind of like the skyline gt-rs have a s*** exhause system that by replacing it with a real one you get like 30-40hp

BlueEmPee5 said:
my back brakes had been clunking for a couple days. Took it to the dealership. They said that the Pro5 brakes in the rear are actually the wrong size for the vehicle (dont know why mazda did that) anyway they went ahead and put in the NEW "MODIFIED" size as they said, for FREE. ha ha new brakes after 1 year is good :D

BlueEmPee5
 
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TheMAN said:
BUT, the rear brakes STILL has more bias than the front... to reduce nosediving...

Why are the front rotors vented then and not the back? Seems odd, doesn't it? I don't doubt what you are saying, but I can't imagine why they would do that if the bias is on the rear.
 
something you should know, i was at the dealer, and heard hmi explaining this to someone who noticed a problem, and he said there was a TSB that the spring that reloaded ( dont know how to explain ) the brakes after braking wouldnt let the pad lose from the disc, allowing it to cause friction for no reason ( resulting in increased gas consumption, and pad wear
although very minimal on gas consumption, because it wasnt really alot of pressure, but the friction was definetely enough to cause premature brake wear
although he said they fixed the problem on 2003 models
you should check it out
 
uhh what's odd about that?

when braking happens weight TRANSFERS to the front REGARDLESS... so what if there is more brake bias to the rear? do you see the back slam down when you brake? even with brake power 100% to the rear, it's NOT going to happen... in fact this rear brake bias is not "put all the power to the rear", it's just slightly more than the front... if it was a lot, you would have noticed your car lose its end already.. the fact that weight transfers to the front means a lot of inertial energy will be directed to the front brakes anyway

THINK

JunkPunch said:
Why are the front rotors vented then and not the back? Seems odd, doesn't it? I don't doubt what you are saying, but I can't imagine why they would do that if the bias is on the rear.
 
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Rear bias/EBD is very complicated but here are the major points:

Brakes (in general, not P5 specific) benefit in a lot of ways from rear bias in certain situations. The rear bias in a non ABS car is controlled by a pressure sesitive valve that limits rear pressure to a certain gradient after line pressure reaches a certain point. ABS/EBD cars look at both deceleration and wheel slip to control rear bias but the end result is somwhat comprable in either car.

This all means that our cars are rear bias only during light to moderate stops. When you really stomp on the pedal the rears stop getting additional pressure and the fronts are allowed to do most of the work (since during max stopping they carry most of the weight). This maximum stopping is the only time when large brake size and venting are needed so that is why the fronts are bigger than the rears (if we always stopped like pansies the fronts could be small too).

The rear bias at moderate stopping is used for a number of reasons: One, at moderate braking there is not much weight transfer so the rear brakes need to do more work. Two, it helps with a fully loaded car (especially a wagon with weight on the rear). Three, it controls brake dive. Decel produced from any brake will cause some dive, however, some complicated geometry makes it less extreme when rear brakes are used. Fourth, it is intended to make pad wear even on the car, obviously Mazda either screwed this up or decided that reasons 1, 2 and 3 were more important than even wear.

Just to state the obvious, the car can't be rear biased during maximum stops because the weight would transfer forward, the rears would lock and the car would spin (think E-brake).

There's a TON more detail involved here but hopefully this answers the "why" question about our funny pad wear.

Alex
 

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