Potential buyer, a few questions........

Suprgtrs_man · Feb 22, 2004

Ok, so my fiance is looking at getting a MSP. She wants a Blue or silver one. She wants to know if these mods would get her to around 240-250whp.
Full turbo back exhaust, Intake, Boost controller, Some fuel management(FCD), FMIC, and a few other little things I am probably forgetting. The most I have seen that you guys are running is 14psi on the stock turbo, is that about the max for efficiency? Basically she wants to know what the max hp she can get out of the stock turbo. She does not need a 400hp monster, she just wants around 250whp if possible. Thanks.

jflo · Feb 22, 2004

discreetspeed has all of those mods (almost, minus the full turbo back and fuel management) and he's been on the dyno w/ a reported 230 whp or so...he's also boosting 15 psi. there really isn't any fuel management that has been successful or being marketed to us yet, but if you wait a few months, should be done by the summer (hopefully).

AutoBox · Feb 22, 2004

yeh with those mods and actually ems tuning she could get a good 275whp....dosnt discreet run a dump pipe ???

Wiggles6983 · Feb 23, 2004

May want to get forged internals.

jersey_emt · Feb 23, 2004

Yes...supposedly the Mazda engineers say the rods can only handle up to 225 WHP...but there are people running higher than that without problems.

There are also people running lower than that WITH problems...but as long as she's smart about the mods, and does everything correctly 250WHP is an attainable goal.

rocketspeed · Feb 23, 2004

Without a rebuild and forged internals it will be dicey, IMO. You might be OK, you might end up on the involuntary rebuild plan.

Why not get an SRT-4 or a WRX if you're looking for more power? Sure the MSP is cheaper, but and MSP plus those mods will cost you about what the other two cars would. They also both have much larger aftermarket support and both have purpose-built turbo engines that hold together well when modded.

Another turbo car that's very responsive to tuning and holds together well is the VW GTI 1.8t. You can make that car fast for short money and its not much more than the MSP either. Also available with a lot more options. Some simple power mods and a bunch of suspension work and you can have a pretty nice GTI.

I'm not trying to talk you out of an MSP, it has its perks, but there are other cars that are probably better suited if you're looking for an easy & reliable 250whp.

funnylittlman · Feb 23, 2004

250 whp is an attainable goal, but your "fuel management" a.k.a. FCD is a bad idea. Why would you lean out the a/f mixture w/ these weak rods, etc.?

Discreetspeed is the only one I know of running 15 psi, but he also runs 100+ octane daily. I see your in MD... I doubt you'll want to do that. In order to do your 250 whp, you will need Perforks MPI tuner ($1000+ tuning) and FMIC, Downpipe or turboback (which is LOUD might I add), CAI/SRI, MBC/EBC, Boost Gauge, Colder Plugs, and you can forget about any warranty that you might have once had. If I were her attaining that goal would be much easier w/ an EVO or STi. That way you're fully covered and you have all the power you want. Spend the money up front. THis is not the car to be messin around with too much IMHO.

BinaryRotary · Feb 23, 2004

funnylittlman said:
250 whp is an attainable goal, but your "fuel management" a.k.a. FCD is a bad idea. Why would you lean out the a/f mixture w/ these weak rods, etc.?

Discreetspeed is the only one I know of running 15 psi, but he also runs 100+ octane daily. I see your in MD... I doubt you'll want to do that. In order to do your 250 whp, you will need Perforks MPI tuner ($1000+ tuning) and FMIC, Downpipe or turboback (which is LOUD might I add), CAI/SRI, MBC/EBC, Boost Gauge, Colder Plugs, and you can forget about any warranty that you might have once had. If I were her attaining that goal would be much easier w/ an EVO or STi. That way you're fully covered and you have all the power you want. Spend the money up front. THis is not the car to be messin around with too much IMHO.

No joke, an FCD is not fuel managment. And no, she won't see that WHP reliably. You'll need forged goodies before you outrun the HP the turbo can produce.

funnylittlman · Feb 23, 2004

^----

You're right Binary, the FCD is asking for detonation

SpeedMcheen · Feb 23, 2004

Now that's a cool fiance, but isn't a wararnty and $3000+- more important than 60-90 extra HP?

yashooa · Feb 23, 2004

funnylittlman said:
^----

You're right Binary, the FCD is asking for detonation

I think at this point the cut is all that saved my ass now that my stock car is pushing crazy boost. I think that it would have flown right past 14PSI had it not had the cut. I will be taking it in and at least have it documented so that Mazda knows about. I hit the boost some more yesterday and with warmer weather it did not want to stop at 14PSI so I said "**** this" and let off.

funnylittlman · Feb 23, 2004

You better be careful Yash, I don't want to hear about your car sending pistons through your hood!

yashooa · Feb 23, 2004

funnylittlman said:
You better be careful Yash, I don't want to hear about your car sending pistons through your hood!

Well the first time I notice the added boost was when I hit the cut so I can only imagine what would have happend it hit 21PSI on pump gas!

DiscreetSpeed · Feb 23, 2004

Suprgtrs_man said:
Ok, so my fiance is looking at getting a MSP. She wants a Blue or silver one. She wants to know if these mods would get her to around 240-250whp.
Full turbo back exhaust, Intake, Boost controller, Some fuel management(FCD), FMIC, and a few other little things I am probably forgetting. The most I have seen that you guys are running is 14psi on the stock turbo, is that about the max for efficiency? Basically she wants to know what the max hp she can get out of the stock turbo. She does not need a 400hp monster, she just wants around 250whp if possible. Thanks.

this car would be great for her then...imho...i will dyno my car again soon to get another reading on hp/tq...im sure there more there to be found.
if you want more power get a srt priced about the same and will hold more power...

good luck

low_psi · Feb 23, 2004

just a correction, Perfwork's neither markets or owns the MPI Tuner. That unit is Nick's @ Modern Performance Inc. It's running on two MSP's right now, one ran 13.7 with a bad intercooler. Right now this is the ONLY way to go(aside from a standalone), unless you can figure out how to get the eManage to work... you may just need the FM voltage clamp.

You won't be making more than ~200whp on pump gas without tuning. After that, you'll need larger injectors, fuel pump & a good EMS to hit the max potential of the stock motor. From there, upgraded internals will take you to the limits of the turbo.

If she wants a tuned 230whp-250whp, she's going to have to be careful with the motor: ie. no long/hard 4th or 5th gear runs

rocketspeed · Feb 23, 2004

I think you're getting the message here. If you want a fun go-cart like car with decent pickup, you're in the right place.

If you want 250whp without extensive mods & tuning, look elsewhere.

SRT-4 and GTI 1.8t would be my primary recommendations.

Sushi-Monster · Feb 23, 2004

Like anything else, your fiance most likely is buying the car because its a sleeper and its also unique... Sure, you may see a VW here and there but to see a MSP every half n hour is next to none. If you know what your doing, anything is possible. It all takes time and effort and a real deep pocket. Hell, why buy a STI when with the same amount of money gets you all the goodies n performance. In the end it'll make you feel better that you did this all to your car and didn't have the factory do it all for you.

Still, if you don't want to take on your warrenty and see if Mazda will be easy on your butt when you blow the engine, go with a different car.

Suprgtrs_man · Feb 24, 2004

Well, this was her car a few years ago........

so she is no stanger to tuning. That car had 270whp(Out of a 1.5L motor with no headwork & stock cams). She just wants something to run maybe mid/high 13's. We are no strangers to tuning or engine work but are new to Mazdas. She will probably build the engine within a year but wants to see what she can get max hp reliably from the stock turbo first. She is not out of max speed anymore like she was with that car. The reason she likes the MSP is because it comes with ALOT of nice stuff stock. The only mods she plans on other than engine work is Teins & a bigger rear sway. The rest of the car externally will stay the same. Neither of us like the Neon, sorry but we both think it is butt ugly. I do not care how fast something is if I think it is ugly. She is also considering the WRX but the cost difference is almost 9K. She can get a MSP for $16,500 at a local dealer but the lowest she could talk a WRX down to was $24K. That is a HUGH difference. Even after building the motor the car would be faster & handle better. Thanks for all the info so far. I actually totally forgot about this car. A few months ago I bought a 2003 Tiburon GT V6. I would have seriously thought about getting the MSP instead. Thanks again.

funnylittlman · Feb 24, 2004

I saw at Stohlman Tyson's Subaru WRX's at 22K (special internet price)

It made me want to get one!

Potential buyer, a few questions........

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