Performace gains

[p5sundevil]

installshield, may I abuse you a little? I only ask cause so few seem as well educated in these matters =)

I am planning on staying N/A as long as possible....
that said here are my plans for the next 6 months, some of which is already done.
CAI
exhaust/header: currently have a ractive axle back sitting in my room but may have a hookup to make me a custom header and 2.5in exhaust all in one shot. So I am waiting on the exhaust and depending on what this guy says either he will make th header for me or I will get the racing mazda one. maybe OBX. Either way I wanna kill the first cat and keep a somewhat high flow 2nd, I do want a little backpressure.

pulley, 9lb flywheel, custom cams for broader power gains, port and polished head, spools tubular intake manifold, wires/plugs/synthetic oil/all the small stuff.

clutch and pressure plate fo course

lastly ECU upgrade, ill have to research that one.

I wanna make 200-220 at the crank realisticly 165-190 at the wheels. how realistic is that?


lol kinda a broad question dontcha think.
shotinthedark
-alex

 

[riz]

installshield, may I abuse you a little? I only ask cause so few seem as well educated in these matters =)

I am planning on staying N/A as long as possible....
that said here are my plans for the next 6 months, some of which is already done.
CAI
exhaust/header: currently have a ractive axle back sitting in my room but may have a hookup to make me a custom header and 2.5in exhaust all in one shot. So I am waiting on the exhaust and depending on what this guy says either he will make th header for me or I will get the racing mazda one. maybe OBX. Either way I wanna kill the first cat and keep a somewhat high flow 2nd, I do want a little backpressure.

pulley, 9lb flywheel, custom cams for broader power gains, port and polished head, spools tubular intake manifold, wires/plugs/synthetic oil/all the small stuff.

clutch and pressure plate fo course

lastly ECU upgrade, ill have to research that one.

I wanna make 200-220 at the crank realisticly 165-190 at the wheels. how realistic is that?


lol kinda a broad question dontcha think.
shotinthedark
-alex

intake manifold? what? where? i haven't seen this yet.

 

[riz]

anyone know what haltech unit would be best for my car? (2003 protege LX 2.0L 5spd) i e-mailed them but they are taking their time in responding.

 

[twilightprotege]

220hp at the engine with what you're saying installshiled2 is very possible. i would put money on that infact. the biggest gains will come from custom cams (mine are being ground at the moment), post and flowing head and new ecu (haltech etc). new intake manifold certainly wont go astray either

i'd stand by 220 crank hp with the above plus exhaust no worries. to go even higher, get hc pistons...you'll prob be looking at 235hp with say 11.0:1 pistons

 

[riz]

it would be cheaper to buy and install a stage 1 turbo than to buy and install hc pistons. staying N/A is expensive damnit.

 

[twilightprotege]

yup, na is expensive....all depends on what you want though. yes i'll be going turbo down the track coz i want 250whp, so turbo is my only real option, but if i was only aiming for say 180whp, i'd stay na

and which haltech unit? e6k i beleive.....ps, gotta love being in the city where haltech comes from. they will become my best friends in 2 years time hehehe

 

[p5sundevil]

riz-at corcksport they sell the Jspec intake manifold which by their claims when combined with the spec cams and pistons should put you near the Jspec power rating, i dont know about that but I do know spool makes 2 different manifolds for their turbo kits. I dont know if they work with N/A applications but the tubular one they make sounds damn sexay.

anyway I will also go turbo eventually, but I want to do alot N/A first and then maybe start with a spool starter kit or maybe stage 1 upgrading as I go. Financials are always tight around here.

 

[Installshield 2]

Alright P5SunDevil, first thing first...I believe Spool only makes a "tubular" turbo manifold, which is exhuast related and does not have anything to do with a NA setup...so I believe your only option for an intake manifold is the J-spec one...Ed gained about 9whp from the pair of cams (j-spec intake, mazdaspeed exhuast) and the ZE intake manifold, I would bet most of that gain was from the cams and that the intake manifolds benefits won't come in until more modifications are made...

165whp is not out of the question, but you have to get a stand alone and raise the compression...The compression more or less compensates somewhat for our engines breathing problems (generally takes similar amounts of air/fuel and squeezes it A LOT tighter before igniting it), and you will not make 165whp with NA on the stock compression...

Now the header...If you are not worried about being legal, go with a long tube 4-2-1 that meets up somwhere near the shift rods under the car (that should give you an idea of the length)...If you are staying NA and keeping the stock redline, I would not go much bigger than 2.5" diameter exhuast, 2 3/4" MAX, after that the pulse rate of the exhuast flow will go to s*** under 4,000 rpm...and actually the header will get rid of the primary cat, and the second cats is considered a "high flow" cat already...You could rig some bungs behind the secondary cat for the post-cat O2 sensor and possibly get rid of some MIL problems...

If you are looking for the numbers...I ran some s*** by a couple of NA dudes last night and it appears that some of the numbers I posted the other day may have been a bit conservative...If you have an FS brought to ZE specs with about 140whp....You can easily get to 160whp with the bolt-ons...Figure since we can't use the J-spec ZE ECU without a lot of work you buy a stand alone. Better tuning with that alone could get around 6whp....header, intake, full exhuast...15whp...so you basically have to sit with a realistic number of about 161whp with easily available parts...You could raise the compression more and get custom cams and make close to 180whp but after that the engine won't be able to spin fast enough to make even more power. So 180whp is the ceiling for NA...Theoretically you could make much more than that but cost for having the forged parts made custom and bottom end reinforcing would more than exceed what you paid for you car...

 

[riz]

ummmm oops

 

[p5sundevil]

thx alot man, 160-180whp was my goal all along as I feel if I make it to that 16-170 range and then go with a small turbo kit I could realisticially be lookin at gettin 200whp which is about where I would liek to be, I have no plans for serious competition, Id like to enter some shows eventually(6months-1yr) and see what I can make of it.

Mostly all the mods I do are for my own personal pleasure, both my dad and I love to drive and love to drive fast as we can, it gets us in trouble every so often but I feel it is worth it and how driving should be.

he has an 83 jaguar xjs v12 brought up to about 321hp, around 280whp. rwd. Absolutely fun car to drive but scares me how much trouble I can get into with it =P

Right now I will finish my plans for my custom header and exhaust combo and after that I will look at custom ground cams and a good port and polish job. Add to that flywheel, pulley, clutch and a good ECU and I should be around where I would like to be.

again thx for the info I appreciate it.

 

[Installshield 2]

That is exactly what I am in the middle of...I am hoping to get at least 140whp (without a header, probably will be tough) with a Haltech and keeping the compression no higher than 10.5:1...after that I will finish my custom turbo setup and run probably a max of 5-6psi...As long as my pressure maps and countless measurements I have been making add up 10whp per psi shouldn't be out of order, getting me right up to 200whp...My goal all along...

 

[p5sundevil]

sweet, yah i figured if their stage 1 kit can do 160whp on a mostly stock engine, then with everything im planning 200whp shouldnt be a problem.


also if your not going header, maybe less expensive for a new downpipe with either high flow or no cat at all and sell it later.
may help ease that damn header restriction these cars have.

 

[Installshield 2]

Indeed, I actually gave the measurements to a friend who can mandrel bend pipes...He said he could do it for about $10 where he works and maybe another $10 for a test pipe to get rid of the secondary cat...I should have it in another week...

I would go with a decent header, but since I have already commited myself to the turbo project (turbo manifold, turbo, and FMIC already in my garage) it would be a pointless investment...

Most of my friends know a lot more about car tuning than I do, and everytime some experienced dude gets under my car he litterally laughs at me becuase of the stock down-pipe...It will be defeated soon enough...

 

[twilightprotege]

tuning is definately the key to power. if money is no object, any whp is possible up to about 300hp per litre (formula 1 engine), but who has that kinda money.

you can get 140whp without exhaust mods. i am sure of that. cams, port head, and a new ecu - easy. all i have done to my exhaust at this stage is gutted the warm up cat. minimal gains there, but once i get cams and headwork, i should be getting close to 130whp (30 over what i am now).....so getting an extra 10 out of tuning is easy.

 

[1FASTMP5]

a Haltech and keeping the compression no higher than 10.5:1...after that I will finish my custom turbo setup and run probably a max of 5-6psi... [/B]

dude, if you plan on going turbo dont get higher compression pistons(not a good thing) ! really you need to decide weather you want to go na, or turbo........ because if you go through all the trouble to get custom cams, h.c pistons and fuel maps for na, you would have to change everything out and almost start all over again.

 

[Installshield 2]

dude, if you plan on going turbo dont get higher compression pistons(not a good thing) ! really you need to decide weather you want to go na, or turbo........ because if you go through all the trouble to get custom cams, h.c pistons and fuel maps for na, you would have to change everything out and almost start all over again.

Dude, why not??? I have everything worked out, and know exactly what I want...The high comression will alow me to easily get the max power I am looking for (200whp) without a bigger boost setup...There are a lot of low boost high compression engines on the road...I do not want lag of any kind, and look at what kind of psi I will be running...5-6psi will be fine as long as I invest in an ECU capable of handling it...The j-spec cams offer better high end breathing and will get rid of that 3,000rpm surge of torque that the stock cams give...They offer a much better build of power with rpm...

Look at it this way...to get to 200whp you can do one of two things...stick with the stock compression and invest in the fuel system to run about 10-12psi...or you can build the engine up to breathe better, raise the compression, and run a lower boost setting with a tiny turbo...both require a lot of research on tuning...and they are both a good thing...I just want a powerful engine that will "feel" as close to an NA engine as possible...