pcm reflash

[girth]

The reflash does not address turbo lag, it addresses air/fuel mixture, and timing. The only fix for turbo lag is a super charger. The entire premise of a turbo makes that lag impossible to get rid of, however, the inventer of the turbo (and i agree) felt the bennifits far out weighed the "lag". The reason that service departments denied it existed was the simple fact that ALL the speed cars drove the same. With out any further information from Mazda how in the hell were we supposed to know that theis was something wrong. On a daily basis we are subjected to things and complaints about things you would find hard to believe. Take for instance "My washer stopped working" is a great one.........the fix??? "Did you check the fluid level ma'am? " .......Yep empty. Or "theres something major wrong with my car! the fan sometimes runs after i shut the car off!" I think you all know the answer to that one. Look at the sticker on your radiator support that tells you it will do that. After being in this business any amount of time you learn 2 things. One is unfortunately you become a sceptic, second get a new one from sales and compair. No differance , no problem. As for the mid-october fix........all i can say is that i have nothing telling me something is comming. Any new TSB's , recalls, or M-tips cross my desk. If I see something, trust me guys, I'll post it.

.....must...resist...urge...to fly...off...handle....
I do not want to come off as too harsh, but what you just stated is exactly why dealerships piss me off! Basically you're saying that the hesitation was just a "characteristic of the car" because all of the speeds ran the same way -- which is something many of us were told. Just because all of the cars do it doesn't mean that it is "OK" and there are no problems! ANY service department should be smart enough to know that when you depress the gas peddle and the RPMs just sit there and don't budge, that is most certainly not "normal." Any service department should also know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have "turbo lag" when you're in full boost! Yet, here it was, turbo screaming away louder than a mofo and the dealerships would still say "turbo lag, don't worry about it, all turbos have it."

Not to mention, what you just said would also mean that the clunk will never be fixed because it also is a "characteristic of the car" since every speed does it.

Rule #1 in your book should be that the customer is always right and you should do everything in your power to correct the problem they complain about. EVERY CAR OWNER IS NOT A COMPLETE BRAINLESS MORON and yet the dealerships treat us all that way. They WILL tell any lie, no matter how big and outrageous it may be just to get rid of us. I pray for the dealership that someday will realize that I drive the car every day and am therefore much more capable of identifying when something is wrong.

I know my venting of anger shouldn't be directed towards you .... but it's so hard not to considering how worthless 99% of all dealerships are.

 

[Dexter]

.....must...resist...urge...to fly...off...handle....
I do not want to come off as too harsh, but what you just stated is exactly why dealerships piss me off! Basically you're saying that the hesitation was just a "characteristic of the car" because all of the speeds ran the same way -- which is something many of us were told. Just because all of the cars do it doesn't mean that it is "OK" and there are no problems! ANY service department should be smart enough to know that when you depress the gas peddle and the RPMs just sit there and don't budge, that is most certainly not "normal." Any service department should also know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have "turbo lag" when you're in full boost! Yet, here it was, turbo screaming away louder than a mofo and the dealerships would still say "turbo lag, don't worry about it, all turbos have it."

Not to mention, what you just said would also mean that the clunk will never be fixed because it also is a "characteristic of the car" since every speed does it.

Rule #1 in your book should be that the customer is always right and you should do everything in your power to correct the problem they complain about. EVERY CAR OWNER IS NOT A COMPLETE BRAINLESS MORON and yet the dealerships treat us all that way. They WILL tell any lie, no matter how big and outrageous it may be just to get rid of us. I pray for the dealership that someday will realize that I drive the car every day and am therefore much more capable of identifying when something is wrong.

I know my venting of anger shouldn't be directed towards you .... but it's so hard not to considering how worthless 99% of all dealerships are.

okay, at least someone here sees my point....

 

[girth]

Yes, I agreed with your earlier point about the turbo timer Dex. It's complete BS that a dealership should give you ANY grief over the install of a TT.

Unfortunately I have NOTHING positive to say ..... so I'm going to do my best to stay out of this thread. Others will be pissed off if I continue.

 

[CarlM2]

Dexter and Girth make good points...
I see the problem as diagnosis. I haven't ever had a car properly diagnosed by a dealer. I've owned many cars over the past 15 years and most dealers are purely profit makers. If they can't make money on the repair, it's not worth doing.

It's not Mazda's concern which is what I think the real problem is. All Mazda cares about is whether the dealership was pleasant and courteous. (and as profitable as possible) ... not whether the technical work was good or bad.

So, approach a dealership like any other mechanic's shop except that you can't talk to the mechanic... you have to relate your problem through someone who has probably never changed their own oil.... who then types in a cryptic message and then delivers it to the mechanic. So, the mechanics are constantly blindsided with odd problems all day. They also get really stupid questions like the one 'dealerpersonel' explained. You also get complete assholes that demand that the radiator fans turn off when the car is off.... 'like they're supposed to'.... !!! I've seen this kind of stupidity from customers (us) while I waited on my car.

Unfortunately, because of the idiots... customers are generally seen as a bunch of morons that don't know dick about cars. No matter what you know or think you know, dealers think you know nothing.... and more importantly, they know better. That attitude sucks but, it comes from dealing with idiots, assholes and attitude. If you've ever worked in a service industry... such as food service, retail sales, etc.. I seriously doubt you were able to take most customers seriously.

Customers' attitude that they KNOW the right answer because they found it on the web would really piss me off as a mechanic. However, if you said, "I read the problem could be caused by..." then I would think the mechanic/service dude would think you were trying to be helpful.... More often than not, the dealership service dept. will still blow you off and think you know nothing.... and whatever you've read is all crap and they know everything.... which is what happens to me from most Mazda dealerships. I've never had Mazda fix a problem with my last 2 Miata's or this car that either A, wasn't fixed B, was made worse, or C, the problem came back.

What's the solution? I don't know. I don't know why Mazda bothers offering a warranty and then don't honor it... Mazda, the dealers and the customers are all working against each other at the moment from what I see. Some attitudes need to change to be able to get real fixes for real problems... while keeping the idiots at bay.

 

[dealerpersonel]

Dexter and Girth make good points...
I see the problem as diagnosis. I haven't ever had a car properly diagnosed by a dealer. I've owned many cars over the past 15 years and most dealers are purely profit makers. If they can't make money on the repair, it's not worth doing.

It's not Mazda's concern which is what I think the real problem is. All Mazda cares about is whether the dealership was pleasant and courteous. (and as profitable as possible) ... not whether the technical work was good or bad.

So, approach a dealership like any other mechanic's shop except that you can't talk to the mechanic... you have to relate your problem through someone who has probably never changed their own oil.... who then types in a cryptic message and then delivers it to the mechanic. So, the mechanics are constantly blindsided with odd problems all day. They also get really stupid questions like the one 'dealerpersonel' explained. You also get complete assholes that demand that the radiator fans turn off when the car is off.... 'like they're supposed to'.... !!! I've seen this kind of stupidity from customers (us) while I waited on my car.

Unfortunately, because of the idiots... customers are generally seen as a bunch of morons that don't know dick about cars. No matter what you know or think you know, dealers think you know nothing.... and more importantly, they know better. That attitude sucks but, it comes from dealing with idiots, assholes and attitude. If you've ever worked in a service industry... such as food service, retail sales, etc.. I seriously doubt you were able to take most customers seriously.

Customers' attitude that they KNOW the right answer because they found it on the web would really piss me off as a mechanic. However, if you said, "I read the problem could be caused by..." then I would think the mechanic/service dude would think you were trying to be helpful.... More often than not, the dealership service dept. will still blow you off and think you know nothing.... and whatever you've read is all crap and they know everything.... which is what happens to me from most Mazda dealerships. I've never had Mazda fix a problem with my last 2 Miata's or this car that either A, wasn't fixed B, was made worse, or C, the problem came back.

What's the solution? I don't know. I don't know why Mazda bothers offering a warranty and then don't honor it... Mazda, the dealers and the customers are all working against each other at the moment from what I see. Some attitudes need to change to be able to get real fixes for real problems... while keeping the idiots at bay.

 

[dealerpersonel]

Let me start by saying that it the situation sucks. However to blame the dealer, 100% of the time, call them morons @ssholes, and whatever else does no one ANY good. Beside that fact that you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. Let me tell you how much i LOVE haveing to tell a customer that there is nothing i can do because either 1) i can't duplicate the problem or 2) it is considered normal operation. 'Cause i know that people bring there cars into the dealership and make stuff up 'cause their bored right? HELL NO! Unfortunatly if ther is no information from mazda in the way of m-tips, tsbs, ot recalls, and the new vehicles show the same performance there IS nothing we can do. Our hands are tied, techs, yes but can we reprogram a pcm with out a program from mazda, no.

 

[enry]

\

sorry not a good day for typing

i can rename the username if u need...

 

[dealerpersonel]

And i too am biting my tongue alot here and not commenting on certin poasts i'm seeing and appreciate aothers doing the same....very hot topic.

 

[dealerpersonel]

i can rename the username if u need...

thanks for the offer, but thats ok I'll live with it if you can.

 

[Dexter]

whats with the tongue biting crap (on both sides)? why dont we just put the truth on the table and call it how it is instead of dancing around the bushes.

 

[dealerpersonel]

whats with the tongue biting crap (on both sides)? why dont we just put the truth on the table and call it how it is instead of dancing around the bushes.

What I ment was getting mad and name calling which get NO ONE ANYWHERE ya know? Real issues, real comments, real discussion I'm all for

 

[Heathen23]

And i too am biting my tongue alot here and not commenting on certin poasts i'm seeing and appreciate aothers doing the same....very hot topic.

Welcome to the forum! Try to stick around for a while and you will see that most people appreciate a tech coming on the forum to help or learn. You have to understand as customers of mazda we hear alot of bad news. Buy a $20,000 and 1,000 miles later it clunks, hesitates, and spews coolant but get told by dealers it's normal function, fixing the PCM voids the warranty, and that a coolant leak can't be found even though there is crusty green fluid all over. It's just a matter of frustration so don't let too many comments bother you. If you can, help us out on how to go about dealing with difficult dealers and take advantage of the forum to learn our perspective on some matters

 

[dealerpersonel]

Welcome to the forum! Try to stick around for a while and you will see that most people appreciate a tech coming on the forum to help or learn. You have to understand as customers of mazda we hear alot of bad news. Buy a $20,000 and 1,000 miles later it clunks, hesitates, and spews coolant but get told by dealers it's normal function, fixing the PCM voids the warranty, and that a coolant leak can't be found even though there is crusty green fluid all over. It's just a matter of frustration so don't let too many comments bother you. If you can, help us out on how to go about dealing with difficult dealers and take advantage of the forum to learn our perspective on some matters

I probably have the answer to your coolant leak. There are 2 possibilitys . get this
SYMPTOM : coolant leak at any one of the water return elbow ends
CAUSE : some early production elbows had molding flaws which allowed coolant to wick through the internal cords.
REPAIR : replaec water return elbow
NOTE: Only certified water return elbows are available and are marked with a blue stripe

courtsey of MAZDA QMD program

 

[enry]

okay, at least someone here sees my point....

Count me in too. I won't tell u my story but it's exactly the same as most of what has been told and is perfectly explained by CarlM2's post.

However there's one thing that I think has been seriously overlooked. At the end of the day, I'm the person who dopped 30k CAD on the car--Not the mechanic, not the dealership, and not Mazda. If customers keep getting a "leave me the f*** alone" attitude from the service dept, it's very possible that on their next purchase they will do just that and go to another dealership / car brand.

 

[dealerpersonel]

second there is a tbs i'll have to get the # and we were sent special tools to repair improperly stamped radiators on protege's. I'll have to see if that applies to speed cars too or not

 

[changedman]

dealer, we (at least I) appreciate what you have to offer. what would a dealer think if i brought in a properly tuned N2O system on my car and needed an oil change or my car ticks. what would a typical response be? Im guessing they'd turn me away.

 

[dealerpersonel]

Count me in too. I won't tell u my story but it's exactly the same as most of what has been told and is perfectly explained by CarlM2's post.

However there's one thing that I think has been seriously overlooked. At the end of the day, I'm the person who dopped 30k CAD on the car--Not the mechanic, not the dealership, and not Mazda. If customers keep getting a "leave me the f*** alone" attitude from the service dept, it's very possible that on their next purchase they will do just that and go to another dealership / car brand.

TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE, one of the main reasons i'm here

 

[changedman]

(i've had so many mazdas, and referred people and my salesman knows be personally and gave me a free oil change for a referral)

 

[dealerpersonel]

dealer, we (at least I) appreciate what you have to offer. what would a dealer think if i brought in a properly tuned N2O system on my car and needed an oil change or my car ticks. what would a typical response be? Im guessing they'd turn me away.

oil change? no problem. Warranty work?................you know the answer you're gonna get already i think. Sorry but thats the way it goes.

 

[dealerpersonel]

I have got to say that the picture of Newman that Girth has cracks me up every freakin time i see it