Overrev 2nd@redline into 1st

[ZooZoom]

Everyone (except those who lie) has experienced a mis-shift. I doubt you actually hit the "theoretical" equivalent RPM's between gears at whatever speed (mph).

If your reaction was like mine, your right foot quickly engages the clutch when you realize (by feel mostly) things aren't going right.

I've probably mis-shifted 2 or 3 times. Car never behaved badly or acted weird afterwards. I've found the Mazda engineers really built the MS3 well and designed it for aggressive driving - and the occasional opps.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

So those who lie have hit down shifts like this?

 

[thefrog1394]

.

 

[ZooZoom]

I wasn't specifically talking about a 2-1 "upshift" here. Hell, I seriously doubt that's even possible at redline or close to it.

I'm talking about balls-out shifting on the fly when a 4-3 "upshift" might happen. That's the one that I've encounted a couple times on the track.

Like I said, your body tends to react even faster than your mind has time to realize a mis-shift occurred. When you feel the car reacting harshly your clutch foot should catch the engine before truly wicked high rpms occur, thus avoiding any damage.

at least that's how it works for me......

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Well second to first seems pretty insane. Maybe the MS3's are better with the 2 to 1 shift, but I have to double clutch to get my car into first if im rolling at all. Although I will admit to a couple near misfits going from 4 to 5 and accidently hitting 3 instead. Although Ive always caught it before the engine over revved. Its kinda hard not to notice the rpm's jumping way up and i kind of instinctively slam on the clutch before the engine redlines.

Double clutch, please explain...

 

[Buyer]

Everyone (except those who lie) has experienced a mis-shift. I doubt you actually hit the "theoretical" equivalent RPM's between gears at whatever speed (mph).

If your reaction was like mine, your right foot quickly engages the clutch when you realize (by feel mostly) things aren't going right.

I've probably mis-shifted 2 or 3 times. Car never behaved badly or acted weird afterwards. I've found the Mazda engineers really built the MS3 well and designed it for aggressive driving - and the occasional opps.

You shift with your right foot??? I do agree with the mis-shift theory, but seriously 6k in 2nd to 1st is a completely moronic move...You would have to really try to get it into gear like that...

And no offense but who are you to judge whether mazda built a car well or designed for aggressive driving? Are you a race car driver or engineer? I mean come on dont the engines fall out of these things?

 

[phantom6294]

Double clutch, please explain...

Explain what double clutching is? Did I miss sarcasm? If not...

Normally used for downshifting to bring the engine to the necessary revs. Say you're in 6th gear cruising at 70 MPH and you want to go to 4th gear.
1. Clutch in
2. Shift to neutral
3. Clutch out
4. Bring RPM up to necessary level, in this case about 4200 RPM
5. Clutch in
6. Shift into lower gear
7. Clutch Out

In theory, you don't HAVE to use the clutch either time -- the first time because many cars can be forced out of gear without using the clutch, the second time, if you match the revs properly, it should slide in 'like butta.' It should be one fluid motion -- your clutch foot should in, out, in, out with maybe a little pause to get the RPM right.

Double clutching basically does the job of the synchros and if done right, eliminates wear on the pressure plate and clutch friction surfaces, but in theory, puts more wear on the throw out bearing since you're moving the clutch twice as much.

I taught myself to double clutch when I was 17 and been doing it ever since. It's now second nature when I go to downshift.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Can you not just blip or heel toe for the right RPM to mesh the Synchros? You dont need all that unecesary motion.

 

[phantom6294]

Can you not just blip or heel toe for the right RPM to mesh the Synchros? You dont need all that unecesary motion.

Yes and no. Bringing up the RPM while still in gear will bring the Clutch / Flywheel to matching speeds, but not the synchros. The sychros do that as you shift into the gear.

 

[thefrog1394]

The syncro's do their work even when the clutch is in. You have to actually let out the clutch in neutral and then rev the engine to eliminate the wear on the syncro's. Thus the reason its easier to double-clutch into first gear. The syncro, at least on my car, is a b**** on first gear. So I basically do the job for it by revving the engine up in neutral. But the key is that the clutch has to be out in neutral.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

Double clutch, please explain...

You step on the clutch, take it out of 2nd into neutral, release the clutch, step on the clutch again, throw it into 1st and release the clutch. That is double clutching. You're basically giving the syncro's enough time to react to the new gear.

 

[mckraut]

I also double clutch with just about every downshift.

 

[PCspeed3]

I still don't understand how you got it into 1st...you must have really nailed that sucker into 1st. My 1st gear locks me out as soon as I'm in 2nd.

Seriously, i try to get it into first from 10-15 mph to stop for stop signs occasionally and she wont let me go there. Starting off in 2nd from a stop sign (slow roll) wont hurt anything will it?

 

[phantom6294]

Seriously, i try to get it into first from 10-15 mph to stop for stop signs occasionally and she wont let me go there. Starting off in 2nd from a stop sign (slow roll) wont hurt anything will it?

Shouldn't... unless you're slipping the clutch a lot (clutch wear) or the engine shudders / lots of vibrations from being at too low of an RPM which would put stress on the motor mounts.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Are you guys driving late model vehicles? This has been remedied since the late 80's. Double clutching is something semi trucks dont even do any more when torque braking.

 

[mckraut]

Are you guys driving late model vehicles? This has been remedied since the late 80's. Double clutching is something semi trucks dont even do any more when torque braking.

I drive an MS3, just like my signature says.

If I can save some wear and tear on things by rev matching, you're damn right I will. Plus it's fun to confuse/impress people by not using the clutch pedal at all while driving (this I rarely do however).

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

I am talking 2nd to 1st shifts and double clutching. Rev matching and slipping shifts is easy but does wear on the synchros, no question.

 

[mckraut]

I am talking 2nd to 1st shifts and double clutching. Rev matching and slipping shifts is easy but does wear on the synchros, no question.

In that case, no, I never shift from 2nd into 1st at stops nor while parking.

You're saying rev matching wears on synchros? You mean saves them I think...

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Shifting without the clutch by rev matching.

 

[thefrog1394]

I'm driving an 03 protege. And unless I'm going like 3 mph theres no way im gonna get the tranny into first without it putting up a fight. Most people don't even bother going into first at things like stop signs they just slip the clutch in second (i do that most of the time too). I just sometimes want to floor it from a rolling start, in which case I need to get into first to get some good acceleration.