TurboProtege
Member
perfworks said:
Yet another reason....
Protege = 5k a year
GTI = 3K a year
NJ BLOWS
Okay guys, I need some help staying focused.
- Thread starter Slipstream
- Start date
Yet another reason....
Protege = 5k a year
GTI = 3K a year
NJ BLOWS
TurboProtege has one thing very correct. The VW can be made a best for short money the Protege can not. To hit even your 210 whp goal you will need a full exhuast intake and possibley a new turbo and definitly a stand alone engine management system.
Slipstream
Member
A point you missed, though. I don't need a fire-breathing BEAST. I want something with good power that can handle extremely well while still retaining good daily and highway driveability (ie. doesn't drive like a truck). If a GTI can do that with a suspension kit that doesn't cost $2k, I'm all ears.
No argument on the interior (although I'd get cloth... Don't want leather, and here in TX it's far too hot in the summer). Looks good, feels good, sounds good (nice solid feel to the doors).
Also no argument on safety. It's by far the best rated car I have been considering, and as as result probably means lower insurance rates (standard front, side, and head airbags, along with ABS + 4 disc brakes). Definately a big plus to the GTI.
As far as putting a post like this on the Vortex, I have. Depends on who you talk to, though. The MKIV guys are obviously heavily behind the GTI, but certainly didn't deny the perks of the MSP. In the Car Lounge, it was pretty much 50/50. There are enough people absolutely IRATE with the way their VW has held up reliability-wise (this would fall under your "German cars last forever" theory) that they'll never own another. Japanese cars have a track record of lasting for years and years, while the MKIV has not. HUGE thumbs down to the GTI here.
The Anniversary is a nice car, but far more than I want/need. I don't need big 18" wheels, don't NEED a body kit (although I like the Votex on the 25th), don't need Recaros (the stock 03 seats are plenty comfy), don't need the trouble-ridden Monsoon system, etc. I'd get a base GTI with the 17" Long Beaches, and that's IT.
Reliability is the big sticking point with the VW, as is the suspension. If I knew with certainty that it would be reliabile, that would be almost a clincher. If I knew I could turn it into a great handler for little money, that's even better.
scapamouche
Member
As stated before, the VW will NOT have the handling ability of the MSP...
If that's your top priority together with price, then that should make the decision for you.
I figured you might have a bad feeling about a Ford, coming from an Cougar, but I had to say it: I think the SVT is probably the best of the really inexpensive pocket rockets. I'd take an MSP over it, 10 times out of 10, but my budget can support it, not everyone's can...
My big problems with the VWs are weight and the suspension design. They have a rear beam axle for heaven's sake (so do the Sentra SE-Rs, BTW) That lack of rear independance makes achieving truly awesome handling very difficult. Both problems adversely affect handling, as does the lack of LSD...
If that's your top priority together with price, then that should make the decision for you.
I figured you might have a bad feeling about a Ford, coming from an Cougar, but I had to say it: I think the SVT is probably the best of the really inexpensive pocket rockets. I'd take an MSP over it, 10 times out of 10, but my budget can support it, not everyone's can...
My big problems with the VWs are weight and the suspension design. They have a rear beam axle for heaven's sake (so do the Sentra SE-Rs, BTW) That lack of rear independance makes achieving truly awesome handling very difficult. Both problems adversely affect handling, as does the lack of LSD...
Slipstream
Member
Well, my main concerns are this:
-Useable power. Cougar had power, but not worthwhile (same power ratings as the MSP with 300lbs more to tote around).
-Awesome handling (Cougar was slow and sloppy even after a spring upgrade).
-Fun to drive. The most fun car I've driven so far was a Mazda Miata. Not a lot of power, but at no point during the 2 weeks that I was driving it (one of the many times the Cougar pulled an overnighter in the dealer lot) was I ever bored. You just feel so connected and in control.
-Reliable. The Cougar has visited various dealers/mechanics over 20 times, and I haven't broken 44k miles yet. I will not repeat this.
-Safe. It doesn't have to be a Volvo 240 Diesel, but I don't want it to crumple like a tin can if it gets by an SUV. The Cougar has TERRIBLE ratings, so it doesn't take much to do better.
As mentioned before, nice styling, some amount of modability (although not much is needed with the MSP), and a good warranty are also important. Both cars fit the mold, but I can't help but think the MSP does a better job.
-Useable power. Cougar had power, but not worthwhile (same power ratings as the MSP with 300lbs more to tote around).
-Awesome handling (Cougar was slow and sloppy even after a spring upgrade).
-Fun to drive. The most fun car I've driven so far was a Mazda Miata. Not a lot of power, but at no point during the 2 weeks that I was driving it (one of the many times the Cougar pulled an overnighter in the dealer lot) was I ever bored. You just feel so connected and in control.
-Reliable. The Cougar has visited various dealers/mechanics over 20 times, and I haven't broken 44k miles yet. I will not repeat this.
-Safe. It doesn't have to be a Volvo 240 Diesel, but I don't want it to crumple like a tin can if it gets by an SUV. The Cougar has TERRIBLE ratings, so it doesn't take much to do better.
As mentioned before, nice styling, some amount of modability (although not much is needed with the MSP), and a good warranty are also important. Both cars fit the mold, but I can't help but think the MSP does a better job.
Slipstream
Member
1st MP3 in NH said:
This is actually backwards. Almost all VWs are produced in Mexico, except for the Passat (still built in Wolfsburg). The older GTIs (I want to say <2000) were still German, but no longer. It's mostly Audis now in the Wolfsburg shop. The GTI is built by the same rejects who spawned winners like the Focus.
Sentra SE-R Spec-V?
I know I'm gonna get some serious (flame2) for this, but what about the Spec-V.
You could probably get a killer deal on an 03 Spec-V. 175hp and loads of tq, plus a HLSD make for a fun car. And from what I hear the 03 is the year to have. They've fixed the tranny and oil problems with the 02s and the 04s are gonna be fuugly.
The downside is the suspension is no where near the MSP and I personally like the looks of the MSP much better.
Of course I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here because I was considering a Spec, but I'm getting ready to put a deposit down now on an MSP.
Ah... what the hell. Just get the MSP, you know you'll love it!
I know I'm gonna get some serious (flame2) for this, but what about the Spec-V.
You could probably get a killer deal on an 03 Spec-V. 175hp and loads of tq, plus a HLSD make for a fun car. And from what I hear the 03 is the year to have. They've fixed the tranny and oil problems with the 02s and the 04s are gonna be fuugly.
The downside is the suspension is no where near the MSP and I personally like the looks of the MSP much better.
Of course I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here because I was considering a Spec, but I'm getting ready to put a deposit down now on an MSP.
Ah... what the hell. Just get the MSP, you know you'll love it!
A
AGR
SpicyMSP said:
Yeah!!! And Spicy knows. She has hot chicks knocking down her door!!!! (rofl)
twiztedjeckel
Member
- :
- '04 SVT Focus
SpicyMSP said:
plus you gotta love something that comes with 18" lightweight BBS wheels and Recaro's as factory trim
funnylittlman
Member
- :
- Protege
Don't Flame,
Just offering a suggestion.
Test drive the SRT4. I know it's a NEON, but it's been winning the sportcarcompact of the year or something or other. You don't need to do any mods to it (since it's dynoing at 220 at the wheels w/ 245ftlbs of torque) and it's covered by Dodge's 7 year 70,000 mile powertrain.
IMHO, I would still go w/ the Speed, due to the fact it looks better, (more subtle), has more comfortable seats (i believe that the Neon has Recaros and are not comfortable for every day driving) and the Speed has a better stereo (and a 4 year 50,000 bumper to bumper w/ the availability to exend it).
In the latest Automobile Magazine, they ranked these cars in order (the Article name was four bangers):
1. MINI Cooper S
2. Ford Focus SVT
3. VW Golf 1.8T
4. MazdaSpeed
I didn't get to read why, but they pulled some slow times for our cars: 0-60: 7.1 (or a lil bit higher), and 1/4mile time of 15.4 (give or take a few tenths).
Now I can't understand why other mags like Sportcompact Car and Motortrend can pull better times... maybe these guys just suck!
Ok Flame away
(chair) (guns) (getsome) (flame) (smash) (flame2)
Just offering a suggestion.
Test drive the SRT4. I know it's a NEON, but it's been winning the sportcarcompact of the year or something or other. You don't need to do any mods to it (since it's dynoing at 220 at the wheels w/ 245ftlbs of torque) and it's covered by Dodge's 7 year 70,000 mile powertrain.
IMHO, I would still go w/ the Speed, due to the fact it looks better, (more subtle), has more comfortable seats (i believe that the Neon has Recaros and are not comfortable for every day driving) and the Speed has a better stereo (and a 4 year 50,000 bumper to bumper w/ the availability to exend it).
In the latest Automobile Magazine, they ranked these cars in order (the Article name was four bangers):
1. MINI Cooper S
2. Ford Focus SVT
3. VW Golf 1.8T
4. MazdaSpeed
I didn't get to read why, but they pulled some slow times for our cars: 0-60: 7.1 (or a lil bit higher), and 1/4mile time of 15.4 (give or take a few tenths).
Now I can't understand why other mags like Sportcompact Car and Motortrend can pull better times... maybe these guys just suck!
Ok Flame away
(chair) (guns) (getsome) (flame) (smash) (flame2)
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A
AGR
awwww s***! (chair) Here we go again! Moderator; please re-locate this thread..Ha!!!! (rofl)
PA_MP3_Man
Member
Does it have to be a new car? You can find some seriously nice used cars like a year or 2 old. Does it have to be a compact? How an Altama or Maxima (maxima will probably be outta the $20k range though), or you might even be able to get a good deal on a Mazda 6. I would check into a 6 man. 220 HP, plenty a room in the trunk. Have to check on the crash ratings. Awesome as all hell looking. I used to think that Altima's and Maxima's were about the best looking sedans, but the 6 takes the cake for me now.
Or try to find a used WRX. Might find one in the $20k range. Although I hear their interiors are not to be desired. I wouldn't konw, never been in one.
If you're still stuck between the MSP and GTi then I would have to pick the MSP. I just couldn't see myself driving down the road in a Ginat Skate, which is what those GTI's look like. Not a fan of the looks at all. And I don't hear good things about VW service and maintanence. While all imports have high priced parts, I guess they are really high. Ok, now it's time for you to make a decision. What's it gonna be? Huh Huh Huh.
Or try to find a used WRX. Might find one in the $20k range. Although I hear their interiors are not to be desired. I wouldn't konw, never been in one.
If you're still stuck between the MSP and GTi then I would have to pick the MSP. I just couldn't see myself driving down the road in a Ginat Skate, which is what those GTI's look like. Not a fan of the looks at all. And I don't hear good things about VW service and maintanence. While all imports have high priced parts, I guess they are really high. Ok, now it's time for you to make a decision. What's it gonna be? Huh Huh Huh.
If I had the choice, which I will this summer, I would get the GTi.
The new 20th Anniversary GTi is awesome. It has better interior, and IMO looks better and more aggresive than the MSP.
20th Anniversary GTi Rabbit
The new 20th Anniversary GTi is awesome. It has better interior, and IMO looks better and more aggresive than the MSP.
20th Anniversary GTi Rabbit
...oops, wrong color smiley...
