Oil Treatment charge, Canadian Dealership, CX-5 Turbo

[sm1ke]

On the topic of DIY and keeping your warranty intact, everything can be done by you. If you elect to DIY, you just buy all of the parts yourself, keep the receipts, and maintain a log that is detailed enough to cover all maintenance items outlined in the Scheduled Maintenance section of your Owner's Manual. It is recommended to buy only OEM parts (filters, spark plugs, etc.). This is just so that if a warranty issue arises, it can't be blamed on an unsuitable aftermarket part like an economy Fram filter or something like that.

Anything you're unsure about when it comes to the items listed in the Scheduled Maintenance section, has likely already been covered here or elsewhere on the Internet, so you'd just need to do a search or ask for help here.

Mazda dealerships usually perform the inspections/lubrications required as part of the vehicle health report you mentioned, so if you opt to have the car dealer-serviced, the invoices should include checklists that cover all of the points of inspection, so you'd just need to keep copies of those to maintain the warranty. But anything else that isn't specified in the Scheduled Maintenance (like fuel system treatments, oil additives, and possibly premature brake fluid/coolant service) is just extra stuff to line the dealership's pockets.

 

[mazda ca]

On the topic of DIY and keeping your warranty intact, everything can be done by you. If you elect to DIY, you just buy all of the parts yourself, keep the receipts, and maintain a log that is detailed enough to cover all maintenance items outlined in the Scheduled Maintenance section of your Owner's Manual. It is recommended to buy only OEM parts (filters, spark plugs, etc.). This is just so that if a warranty issue arises, it can't be blamed on an unsuitable aftermarket part like an economy Fram filter or something like that.

Anything you're unsure about when it comes to the items listed in the Scheduled Maintenance section, has likely already been covered here or elsewhere on the Internet, so you'd just need to do a search or ask for help here.

Mazda dealerships usually perform the inspections/lubrications required as part of the vehicle health report you mentioned, so if you opt to have the car dealer-serviced, the invoices should include checklists that cover all of the points of inspection, so you'd just need to keep copies of those to maintain the warranty. But anything else that isn't specified in the Scheduled Maintenance (like fuel system treatments, oil additives, and possibly premature brake fluid/coolant service) is just extra stuff to line the dealership's pockets.

thank you. Don't want to sound like a broken record, just to confirm... so if I chose to have Mazda dealership do my oil changes, can I ask them for ONLY oil/filter change (when it comes to 12 months or 24 months for example) and by doing that I am not putting my warranty into jeopardy? (because I am omitting the rest of the "requirements" per Mazda Canada highlighted in yellow)

 

[181962]

First, price. If the $135 CAD included the additive then ($135 - $16) * 0.78 = $93 USD. Your subsequent quote from another dealer is only a couple bucks difference after subtracting for the oil treatment. If you happen to be in or around Vancouver with a high cost of living and labor rates I would not consider that out of line these days by US standards for a synthetic oil change. Also, with sharply diminished vehicle sales it is reasonable to think the service department is making up some of the difference. By the way, did your receipt indicate it was a synthetic oil and what brand?

As for the rest, @Mazdioid2 may be on to something:

Maybe they use a cheap bulk motor oil and the treatment is Molybdenum to enhance it to the level of a higher quality lube, such as Mazda/Idemitsu?

Most better quality oils available have that ingredient for prices under $25US and the additive isn't necessary.

While I would not agree that most high quality oils contain moly, there is a point to be made about bulk oil. Unlike 0W20 Mazda branded oil for the normally aspirated 2.5L "with Moly" printed on the front label (while still GF5 by the way), the 5W30 Mazda oil recommended for the turbo Sig makes no mention of moly on the label. Are these oils even synthetic? The front labels don't say so. But I digress.

Back to bulk oil. Many (most?) dealers will use a bulk oil unless you specify otherwise. It is way less expensive for them and for you. Mazda is surely aware of this and permits it. Yet if one takes the manual literally, consider this: "For maintenance service, Mazda recommends Mazda Genuine Parts and Oil." Further, the manual makes no specification of synthetic oil or differing service intervals for synthetic vs conventional which raises further questions.

Next, taking the manual literally, there is no replacement interval specified for auto trans fluid, pretty common in the industry these days. Also there is no replacement interval specified for brake fluid. There's also a weird thing where the engine air filter replacement schedule for normal service is shorter (22,500 miles) vs. severe (clean or replace at 30,000 miles).

So, here's the thing. Many independent professionals and amateur DIYers alike take these manual recommendations with a grain of salt, erring on the side of caution. It's not a stretch to think dealer techs are like minded. Many would say you should not drive your car forever without changing the trans fluid just based on a color check or brake fluid based on a color or temperature check. Then you get debates over whether you should just drain and fill the trans replacing 1/3 of the fluid or have it all sucked out by a system like the BG found at many dealers. Anyway, erring on the side of caution is not a bad thing if you keep cars for a long time and are not flipping 2 or 3 year leases.

Now, the fact the dealer was lying about Mazda recommending an additive or that oil change prices are fixed was predictable. Then again, Mazda recommends only Mazda branded oil which at that price I'd presume you did not get--on the other hand non-Mazda bulk oil is not prohibited nor are oil additives per the manual.

So, that leaves a couple of possibilities. You've encountered a service department or service writer or a tech who honestly believes the additive to bulk oil is conservative erring on the side of caution and lied to you for your own good in their opinion. If it was a moly additive you'd find a number of folks here who think that's not a bad idea. Or they dumped it in just to make another $5. Or they didn't do anything at all and ripped you off. You have to judge that for yourself.

However, when you roll into a dealership at 50,000 or 60,000 miles and the dealer recommends a trans fluid service, whether it is "we" recommend or lie that "Mazda" recommends, there are a whole lot of people who agree that one or the other kind of trans fluid service at that point is a good idea. It's darn near conventional wisdom.

As far as the "go by the manual" chant, some of the people chanting would not think of driving the car until it drops, skipping trans fluid service because it passes "inspection". Many would tell you they would not use anything but a synthetic oil though there is no Mazda requirement that you do so. There's a lot of picking and choosing.

If you conclude that an additive to bulk oil is entirely unnecessary, then by all means seek out an alternative for future service.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Think the main issue that GTeyes and other posters have pointed out is there is now an additive that Mazda could use as "an out" and refuse warranty repair if future engine problems arise... it seems as if this is a brand new 2021, not a vehicle with 50-60K miles on it. some options include :

1: change it yourself or get an oil change from a trusted mechanic as soon as possible to get it out of there.

2. Write a letter/or an email to the dealership and copy Mazda Canada.
Notate that you trusted that the Mazda dealer was acting as an agent of Mazda Canada/corporate in servicing your vehicle. and that an additive was put into your car by the dealership either against your wishes, without your consent, or a misunderstanding that they advised and were doing what was required to keep the car within the warranty terms. You want both Mazda Canada and the dealership to respond what effect if any this would have on your warranty, and whom will be responsible should something happen to your powertrain within the 7 year/84 k mile warranty period. you request and want a response letter from both of them that your warranty will still remain intact for the remainder of the 7yr/84k.

3. keep quiet, change the oil soon, hope nothing happens and if it does submit a warranty claim and hope the dealership doesn't try to say its your fault. It might be too late as it sounds as if you already contacted Mazda Canada so you may want to follow up with option 2 at this point so its on record what happened.

 

[181962]

thank you. Don't want to sound like a broken record, just to confirm... so if I chose to have Mazda dealership do my oil changes, can I ask them for ONLY oil/filter change (when it comes to 12 months or 24 months for example) and by doing that I am not putting my warranty into jeopardy? (because I am omitting the rest of the "requirements" per Mazda Canada highlighted in yellow)

A Mazda dealer should be doing all those inspections, and more, for free with an oil change. It's the kind of check list many service centers provide. Mazda calls it "Full Circle Service Report Card". Did you not get one of those?

I recently went to a Mazda dealer (not the one I bought it from) for a $10 state safety inspection (no smog test until year 3). Not only did they do the Full Circle they washed the car and there was no attempt to sell me anything else. Some dealers value repeat service business and repeat buyers, others not so much. My vehicle only had about 10,000 miles on it so it wasn't like they were using the Full Circle to sell me brakes and tires based on wear measurements though I wouldn't rule out some dealers only doing these reports at higher mileage to do that selling.

So, if you're going to use a dealer for service, ask them if they provide that Full Circle report before making the appointment. If you decide to go back to the one in question ask them if you can skip the oil additive if that's what you're thinking. You could also ask the service department manager to explain the lies. It's the lies more than the oil additive that's the main issue in my mind. I'm thinking the answers are not going to be satisfactory but you might want to hear them try.

As for DIY without all the inspections maybe compromising warranty coverage, Mazda would be hard pressed to deny a warranty claim if something that's covered simply breaks during the warranty period.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

A Mazda dealer should be doing all those inspections, and more, for free with an oil change. It's the kind of check list many service centers provide. Mazda calls it "Full Circle Service Report Card". Did you not get one of those?

I recently went to a Mazda dealer (not the one I bought it from) for a $10 state safety inspection (no smog test until year 3). Not only did they do the Full Circle they washed the car and there was no attempt to sell me anything else. Some dealers value repeat business and repeat buyers, others not so much My vehicle only had about 10,000 miles on it so it wasn't like they were using the Full Circle to sell me brakes and tires based on wear measurements though I wouldn't rule out some dealers only doing these reports at higher mileage to do that selling.

So, if you're going to use a dealer for service, ask them if they provide that Full Circle report before making the appointment. If you decide to go back to the one in question ask them if you can skip the oil additive if that's what you're thinking. You could also ask the service department manager to explain the lies. It's the lies more than the oil additive that's the main issue in my mind. I'm thinking the answers are not going to be satisfactory but you might want to hear them try.

As for DIY without all the inspections maybe compromising warranty coverage, Mazda would be hard pressed to deny a warranty claim if something that's covered simply breaks during the warranty period.

Good advice. At this point it sounds as if his relationship with his dealer is irretrievably broken. He should just find a new one that does that full circle report you mentioned.

 

[181962]

Good advice. At this point it sounds as if his relationship with his dealer is irretrievably broken. He should just find a new one that does that full circle report you mentioned.

It would be broken for me unless the service manager told me that it was a rogue liar who has been fired. Not likely but possible. I also have future practices in mind when the years and miles rack up that diverge from the manual. The OP will eventually decide one way or the other on such matters. It's not exactly clear to me if he got that Full Circle report as one factor under consideration.

 

[mazda ca]

Just spoke with the service manager (unfortunately it was him who misled... to put it politely.... me in the first place...)

The guy didn't even apologize, which goes to show the culture there. Only offered to refund. Sure.

Going forward I will try to avoid that dealership whenever possible. No trust.

Will complete my Mazda Survey accordingly.

Sad that it turned out this way.
Case closed. Thanks all for your opinions guys.

Have a great weekend!

 

[AC3]

Glad I came across this thread. Same issue with my 48k 'inspection' and oil change on my 2021 CX-5 turbo. Was never asked, but noticed after the fact that dealership stuck me with over $70 worth of additives:

BG115 MOA treatment $30.37
BG280 fuel treatment $21.80
BG2026 fuel additive $19.67

I'm on my 2nd CX-5, looking at all my past invoices, never had any additives added nor suggested. Wonder if all dealerships play this game - just switched to this dealership as the previous one was simply backassed.

 

[Conrad 16.5]

Glad I came across this thread. Same issue with my 48k 'inspection' and oil change on my 2021 CX-5 turbo. Was never asked, but noticed after the fact that dealership stuck me with over $70 worth of additives:

BG115 MOA treatment $30.37
BG280 fuel treatment $21.80
BG2026 fuel additive $19.67

I'm on my 2nd CX-5, looking at all my past invoices, never had any additives added nor suggested. Wonder if all dealerships play this game - just switched to this dealership as the previous one was simply backassed.

Are you saying that you went into this dealership for an inspection and oil change and when you were leaving, they presented you with a bill with those 'extra' items added, and they did not ask you if you wanted these items included?

 

[AC3]

Are you saying that you went into this dealership for an inspection and oil change and when you were leaving, they presented you with a bill with those 'extra' items added, and they did not ask you if you wanted these items included?

So they never verbally mentioned additives to me. Looking closer at the work-order, they have added a line at the end of the Mazda recommended 48k stuff, with a line saying "engine treatment included". The additive prices are listed with the other oil change items (oil, filter, washer).

So I'm expecting what the Mazda recommended 48k service includes, plus an alignment; bill comes out a bit more steep than I'm used to, but the way prices are going up these days I didn't flinch...till I re-read the invoice and saw how they sneaked this in. Going to dispute this with them....and also how they tried selling me a brake replacement with bogus measurements on the pads - they wrote on the inspection that rears were at 2mm fronts at 4mm which didn't make sense to me with 46k mainly highway. I bought the parts to do myself this weekend, lo and behold I have 5mm on all 4. Still some millage left in them. WTF? Tried putting trust into this dealership, but obviously that's now gone.

 

[Conrad 16.5]

So they never verbally mentioned additives to me. Looking closer at the work-order, they have added a line at the end of the Mazda recommended 48k stuff, with a line saying "engine treatment included". The additive prices are listed with the other oil change items (oil, filter, washer).

So I'm expecting what the Mazda recommended 48k service includes, plus an alignment; bill comes out a bit more steep than I'm used to, but the way prices are going up these days I didn't flinch...till I re-read the invoice and saw how they sneaked this in. Going to dispute this with them....and also how they tried selling me a brake replacement with bogus measurements on the pads - they wrote on the inspection that rears were at 2mm fronts at 4mm which didn't make sense to me with 46k mainly highway. I bought the parts to do myself this weekend, lo and behold I have 5mm on all 4. Still some millage left in them. WTF? Tried putting trust into this dealership, but obviously that's now gone.

Yikes! Liars and cheats. Care to name this dealership?

I would certainly demand that $70 be refunded!

So, they threw in the "engine treatment" for free? How generous of them!

BUT

BG115 MOA treatment $30.37
BG280 fuel treatment $21.80
BG2026 fuel additive $19.67


I have to wonder what the difference is between the three items above, I mean, other than the profit the dealership is making on them?

 

[N7turbo]

I would ask for an explanation on what the additives are. There is no oil meeting today's specs that benefits from any additives.

 

[Buzzman12]

There is no oil meeting today's specs that benefits from any additives.

That says it all perfectly.
There is zero need to add anything to current oils.
Back in the 60's as a young first time car owner, I got sucked into all the hype for additives (STP anyone?) and magic gadgets that were guaranteed to double your horsepower, while using half as much gas. None of them ever worked or made a hoot of difference.

Just keep up with your regular oil and filter changes, and you'll be good to go. End of story.

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ I got sucked into all the hype for additives (STP anyone?)

Back to late 70’s and 80’s I did use the STP Oil Treatment to slow down the oil burning issue on my 1974 Chevy Impala and 1974 AMC Hornet. It was actually very effective BTW.

 

[sm1ke]

I haven't watched the video yet, but the creator's experience, credentials and demonstrated expertise seems sound. Personally I've never added anything to the oil in any of my previous and current cars, mainly because the manual tells you not to most of the time, but also because I believe none of it is necessary with a well-maintained engine. The only thing I have considered is a Seafoam treatment for attempting to clean off some carbon build-up on the back of the intake valves, but I wouldn't consider that an additive as I would changed the oil almost immediately after the treatment as the instructions suggest.

I did just start using MMO in my last fuel fill up. Mileage seems to have improved at least 2 MPG with no change to my driving habits, but this tank is only half done.

 

[RedBaron]

I did just start using MMO in my last fuel fill up. Mileage seems to have improved at least 2 MPG with no change to my driving habits, but this tank is only half done.

Wow! That's not only a Marvel, but also a Mystery!

 

[Freedom55]

Back to late 70’s and 80’s I did use the STP Oil Treatment to slow down the oil burning issue on my 1974 Chevy Impala and 1974 AMC Hornet. It was actually very effective BTW.

I did the same on my 1976 VW Rabbit when the valve guides were worn out and had too many miles on it for the free head replacement recall. I also used Bardahl top cylinder lubricant . After that, only gas line antifreeze for a few years. Haven't used any additives for decades.

 

[AC3]

Yikes! Liars and cheats. Care to name this dealership?

I would certainly demand that $70 be refunded!

So, they threw in the "engine treatment" for free? How generous of them!

BUT

BG115 MOA treatment $30.37
BG280 fuel treatment $21.80
BG2026 fuel additive $19.67


I have to wonder what the difference is between the three items above, I mean, other than the profit the dealership is making on them?

I'm not one to kiss and tell, as I plan to escalate this matter; but it was a Montreal dealership. Think I may just go to the consumer protection groups, as my past experience with Mazda Canada's regional office has been crap - they simply told me that the dealership service department knows what is best. Yep.

BG115 MOA treatment : BG Advanced Formula MOA® keeps piston rings from sticking, stabilizes oil viscosity, prevents increased exhaust emissions, reduces wear, prevents sludge and varnish, and is resistant to evaporative oil loss.

BG280 fuel treatment : BG Fuel System Drier absorbs moisture in the fuel system, holding it in suspension until it can be burned up by the engine.

BG2026 fuel additive : BG Supercharge® II Prevents rust and corrosion and provides long-term fuel storage stability.

None of which I really needed - and to add insult, my increased exhaust emissions and oil loss were due to the leaking valve seals TSB...no oil additive gonna fix that. And my tank of gas with supposed moisture & long term storage issues? I think not.

 

[Conrad 16.5]

I'm not one to kiss and tell, as I plan to escalate this matter; but it was a Montreal dealership. Think I may just go to the consumer protection groups, as my past experience with Mazda Canada's regional office has been crap - they simply told me that the dealership service department knows what is best. Yep.

BG115 MOA treatment : BG Advanced Formula MOA® keeps piston rings from sticking, stabilizes oil viscosity, prevents increased exhaust emissions, reduces wear, prevents sludge and varnish, and is resistant to evaporative oil loss.

BG280 fuel treatment : BG Fuel System Drier absorbs moisture in the fuel system, holding it in suspension until it can be burned up by the engine.

BG2026 fuel additive : BG Supercharge® II Prevents rust and corrosion and provides long-term fuel storage stability.

None of which I really needed - and to add insult, my increased exhaust emissions and oil loss were due to the leaking valve seals TSB...no oil additive gonna fix that. And my tank of gas with supposed moisture & long term storage issues? I think not.

No kissing involved, unless it's by the dealership after they screw their customers over.