FWIW, I discussed this on another mailing list full of engine builders, racers, and general car nuts in the Miata community. The general concensious is that if there is excessive blow by, ie:worn piston rings, or high boost on an unbuilt motor, then you could use it the way TheMAN describes. But I need to stress that that's a bandaid fix for other problems. The original purpose of the can is exactly how i described.
oil catch tank alarm!
- Thread starter miataguy2cyprus
- Start date
MiaTurbo said:
ok, so the engineers and I are wrong
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/greddycatchcan.htm
http://www.bozz.co.jp/JP/parts/engine/oilcatchtank/evo_5.html
this thread needs to be locked because everything that needed to be said has been said, and everyone is talking in circles... but apparently, the wise people with that ability don't think so, just like every other flamefest on this board they spiral out of control until it gets locked
so to the reader, read BOTH sides of what's been said here, then THINK of what's been said to form your own informed opinion after you consider the physics involved in the system, and of course using common sense... once you've done that, you'll see which method *works*... god help you if you can't sit down and think this through
so how about posting supporting data to back up *your* claims mr certified retired mechanic which I'm saying is common misconception hence why there's more pages showing your setup method? it doesn't take someone smart to see that I've explainations and supporting data compared to you.... so how about it? I'd love to see how wrong mazda engineers, bozz speed (as well as other major big name tuners in Japan) engineers, and I are
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I guess KoolDino is just imagining the oil caught in his can...
Like I said in my previous post, the way you say to mount it (and Mazda) is a bandaid fix for excessive blow by, and I acknowledged it. Since Cypress's car is N/A, he will never get oil in his can.. The way Cypress has it mounted on his car is incorrect.
Thank you for posting the diagram of the MSM. (I don't have other language packs installed on this computer so I can't read the BOZZ site, and the picture isn't clear...)
BTW. You really need to check the 'I am God and what i say is right' attitude at the door.
Like I said in my previous post, the way you say to mount it (and Mazda) is a bandaid fix for excessive blow by, and I acknowledged it. Since Cypress's car is N/A, he will never get oil in his can.. The way Cypress has it mounted on his car is incorrect.
Thank you for posting the diagram of the MSM. (I don't have other language packs installed on this computer so I can't read the BOZZ site, and the picture isn't clear...)
BTW. You really need to check the 'I am God and what i say is right' attitude at the door.
- :
- '13 CWP MS3 & '16 Mazda6 GT
Fadi FTW! <3
MiaTurbo said:
I don't know about you, but an oil catch can is meant as insurance in case you DO get crazy blow-by, *not* a "bandaid fix", and not a "we must catch everything and keep everything from going into the engine because it's urine"... if it's spraying out all the time like your garden hose, then the motor has to be fixed... plus you shouldn't even expect an ounce of anything in an oil catch can to begin with (it should just be a mist that will hardly get caught which is basically like trying to catch and measure rain in a desert)!... burning that mist is insignificant to engine performance! by your "bandaid" logic, if mazda put it on the MSM, then we can assume there's something wrong with the motors to begin with and they put that on there as a "cheap bandaid fix"
I noticed that the majority of the Wrx crowd are using two catch cans.
One for the valve cover to intake and the other from the pcv to intake manifold.
I have a similar setup as the one stated above and I catch about a tablespoon of oil from the pcv to intake manifold setup and no oil from the valve cover to intake setup.
One for the valve cover to intake and the other from the pcv to intake manifold.
I have a similar setup as the one stated above and I catch about a tablespoon of oil from the pcv to intake manifold setup and no oil from the valve cover to intake setup.
Q: Why is a catch can used?
A: To catch those gasses that can create carbon and oil sludge build-up in your intake system.
You guys need to read this
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/catchcaninstructions.htm
Yes they do explaine That the way TheMan explained it, is how it should be on a BOOSTED car, also giving the benifits of closing off the PCV all together.
"An option for cars that never see use on the streets is to disable the PCV valve. Under normal operation the PCV valve allows crankcase air to be drawn into the intake manifold when you have vacuum in the manifold. Once you make boost pressure, the PCV valve closes and the only ventilation the crankcase gets is thru the small hose that was running to the turbo inlet.
By eliminating the PCV valve you can get twice the crankcase ventilation while under boost."
However with No-Boost....... Like the engine in question.
It would make sence to have it tapped into the breather line between the intake & PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) to allow it to breath without injesting the oil vapors. This would in the end catch those gasses that can create carbon and oil sludge build-up in your intake system, especially since the engine will not see boost, and that being the use of a oil catch can. However, tapped into the Crankcase, it would still catch the blow-by gasses, I just would assume not as much due to the vacume.
On another note tapped into the PCV wont help the throttle body where as tapped into the crankcase will, but with more vapors still going through the intake manifold.
The Prob with the catch can tapped into the PCV on a boosted car, is once you make boost the PCV valve closes and the only ventilation is through the crank case, making the crank case the place you want your catch can on a boosted car, preferably with the PCV valve closed off altogether (Not recomended for street use) Or a second catch tank tapped into the PCV.
Both ways catch oil and work, one just wont work as well on a boosted car.
Final thought.
On a Boosted Car, if you are to have 1 catch can, tap it to the crank case, as with only one catch can the PCV < Crank Case. It will still work tapped into the PCV but not as good as it will tapped into the crank case (It would be useless during boost). Boosted cars will also benifit from a second one tapped to the PCV or the PCV closed altogether.
On a N/A Car you can go eithor way, however the PCV tap will be more effective, as tapped to the crank case it will only help the throttle body, nothing else as the PCV will still have vapors going through the intake manifold. Yes if tapped to the PCV the crank case will still put out vapors going through the throttle body and then through the intake manifold, but ALOT less.
My 2 Cents
Soo miataguy2cyprus untill your car is boosted, I would sugest to change the set up to how MiaTurbo has explained. If ever you boost, switch it over to how TheMan has it, or get a 2nd one for the crank case at that time.
Keeping it where it is, wont hurt at all, and you will still catch oil, but it will be more benificial if you change it, untill your boosted.
A: To catch those gasses that can create carbon and oil sludge build-up in your intake system.
You guys need to read this
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/catchcaninstructions.htm
Yes they do explaine That the way TheMan explained it, is how it should be on a BOOSTED car, also giving the benifits of closing off the PCV all together.
"An option for cars that never see use on the streets is to disable the PCV valve. Under normal operation the PCV valve allows crankcase air to be drawn into the intake manifold when you have vacuum in the manifold. Once you make boost pressure, the PCV valve closes and the only ventilation the crankcase gets is thru the small hose that was running to the turbo inlet.
By eliminating the PCV valve you can get twice the crankcase ventilation while under boost."
However with No-Boost....... Like the engine in question.
It would make sence to have it tapped into the breather line between the intake & PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) to allow it to breath without injesting the oil vapors. This would in the end catch those gasses that can create carbon and oil sludge build-up in your intake system, especially since the engine will not see boost, and that being the use of a oil catch can. However, tapped into the Crankcase, it would still catch the blow-by gasses, I just would assume not as much due to the vacume.
On another note tapped into the PCV wont help the throttle body where as tapped into the crankcase will, but with more vapors still going through the intake manifold.
The Prob with the catch can tapped into the PCV on a boosted car, is once you make boost the PCV valve closes and the only ventilation is through the crank case, making the crank case the place you want your catch can on a boosted car, preferably with the PCV valve closed off altogether (Not recomended for street use) Or a second catch tank tapped into the PCV.
Both ways catch oil and work, one just wont work as well on a boosted car.
Final thought.
On a Boosted Car, if you are to have 1 catch can, tap it to the crank case, as with only one catch can the PCV < Crank Case. It will still work tapped into the PCV but not as good as it will tapped into the crank case (It would be useless during boost). Boosted cars will also benifit from a second one tapped to the PCV or the PCV closed altogether.
On a N/A Car you can go eithor way, however the PCV tap will be more effective, as tapped to the crank case it will only help the throttle body, nothing else as the PCV will still have vapors going through the intake manifold. Yes if tapped to the PCV the crank case will still put out vapors going through the throttle body and then through the intake manifold, but ALOT less.
My 2 Cents
Soo miataguy2cyprus untill your car is boosted, I would sugest to change the set up to how MiaTurbo has explained. If ever you boost, switch it over to how TheMan has it, or get a 2nd one for the crank case at that time.
Keeping it where it is, wont hurt at all, and you will still catch oil, but it will be more benificial if you change it, untill your boosted.
Last edited:
miataguy2cyprus
Member
first of all thanx miaturbo and theman. i guess rac3rX is the most right 
. you both have right, so for now i changed it to the way miaturbo said. the only thing left is to put a ring there where the red connects to the green pipe.
thanx again people
. you both have right, so for now i changed it to the way miaturbo said. the only thing left is to put a ring there where the red connects to the green pipe.
thanx again people
miataguy2cyprus said:first of all thanx miaturbo and theman. i guess rac3rX is the most right
thanx again people
NP, glad to help.
It looks good, & you can always put some hose covers over the hoses to make them color matched if ever you want to.
yes, awaken from the death...just my 2 cents
the first time i installed the catch can i didn't know how....tried to make sense of it myself and came up with exactly the way miataguy2cyprus has it installed. it just made more sense.
I understand TheMan's way too, and the "japanse's" way too.
i belive that the MSP PVC valce could had been improved, mazda FAILED at this...but one only wonders "WHY" if they had made BOOSTED cars before and there was A BETTER PVC already made that fitted our cars?
why did mazda chose not to re-use a BETTER PCV valve and reuse the anemic one from the protege?.....i think the day we figure out why mazda does the things they do, we'll have a very horrific death because we quetsioned GOD...lol
anyways, just wanted to see who else had done what miataguy2cyprus said and who actually has it hooked up as TheMAN said.
i believe we can benefit from 2 catch cans.
i do have one more question....
if in addition to the PCV valve, we also use a ONE WAY CHECK VALVE like the one used in the brake booster line, would this help the functionality of the PCV system?
hmmm
the first time i installed the catch can i didn't know how....tried to make sense of it myself and came up with exactly the way miataguy2cyprus has it installed. it just made more sense.
I understand TheMan's way too, and the "japanse's" way too.
i belive that the MSP PVC valce could had been improved, mazda FAILED at this...but one only wonders "WHY" if they had made BOOSTED cars before and there was A BETTER PVC already made that fitted our cars?
why did mazda chose not to re-use a BETTER PCV valve and reuse the anemic one from the protege?.....i think the day we figure out why mazda does the things they do, we'll have a very horrific death because we quetsioned GOD...lol
anyways, just wanted to see who else had done what miataguy2cyprus said and who actually has it hooked up as TheMAN said.
i believe we can benefit from 2 catch cans.
i do have one more question....
if in addition to the PCV valve, we also use a ONE WAY CHECK VALVE like the one used in the brake booster line, would this help the functionality of the PCV system?
hmmm
