Not a Protege but...
- Thread starter Fear
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(jerkit)Fast local all motor.
Speaking of fast all motor vehicles. Here's a local Honda that is all motor running low 11s.
http://www.spokanespeed.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1676
Here's some of the specs
http://www.spokanespeed.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1667
Speaking of fast all motor vehicles. Here's a local Honda that is all motor running low 11s.
http://www.spokanespeed.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1676
Here's some of the specs
http://www.spokanespeed.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1667
He may be giving up some low end with the 3" exhaust, but every mod he does to open it up, up top is going to show huge gains. I pretty much went the same route, with my 1.8 and 2.5" exhaust. I'll lose low RPM velocity, but I'm going to be running 8500RPM, and every mod I do gets me huge gains above 7000RPM. Here's what simple cam timing changes did on my car. As you can see, I make more power at 7400 than I did at peak before. I don't think it would, had I had 2.25" exhaust. When I'm up to 1929cc and at 8500RPM, the 2.5" will be perfect.
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TXMazdaSpeeder
T is for Turbo
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- 2003 Black Mica MSP #566
thats odd, my friends 02 spec has a nismo r-tune header and apex'i N1 exhaust with a random technolgies high flow cat and it sounds pretty damn good, loud as all hell, but sounds good, whats sad is my mp3 with resonator delete and a muffler change is almost as loud. (shrug)protegeV said:
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
I have a friend that has a I/H/E combo on his white Spec V...worst sounding car Ev4r!!!!11one...runs great power wise, but just has this awful resonance that drives me absolutely crazy...Its an Apex'i N1 cat-back, with a Jim Wolfe technology header I believe...still has one cat I think too...
Great read dude...We need your rod length pronto...All I know for sure is that stock spec'd forged internal QR25's will fly apart at anything higher than 7800rpm...which is understandable with pretty much the highest production engine stroke of any gasoline engine car (besides that terd Ralliart lancer...which has the same...but sucks)...The RTR owned Spec V that Cunningham is driving redlines at about 7850, and barely lasts a couple hundred miles before needing an all new assembly...and that car was making about 260bhp or so out of stock 2.5L's...
The bore is really going to help with breathing at those piston speeds, especially with your valve upgrade...
Keep us posted...and I want to know the rod ratio, haha...just curious...
Great read dude...We need your rod length pronto...All I know for sure is that stock spec'd forged internal QR25's will fly apart at anything higher than 7800rpm...which is understandable with pretty much the highest production engine stroke of any gasoline engine car (besides that terd Ralliart lancer...which has the same...but sucks)...The RTR owned Spec V that Cunningham is driving redlines at about 7850, and barely lasts a couple hundred miles before needing an all new assembly...and that car was making about 260bhp or so out of stock 2.5L's...
The bore is really going to help with breathing at those piston speeds, especially with your valve upgrade...
Keep us posted...and I want to know the rod ratio, haha...just curious...
p5sundevil
Member
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- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
im out of state right now but when I get back I will look up that article and see exactly what they were talking about with the sr20 and qr25, may have been the sr20 crank that dropped almost right in but I know it was a mating of parts from the 2 different engines.
I keep thinking about keeping mid range power where I like it the most and where i use it the most as I dont race my car therefor for me a 2.5 is huge, i gguess on an all out 2.7L it wouldnt be, just remember the article from garret saying 3" is only for FI.
I keep thinking about keeping mid range power where I like it the most and where i use it the most as I dont race my car therefor for me a 2.5 is huge, i gguess on an all out 2.7L it wouldnt be, just remember the article from garret saying 3" is only for FI.
There was also an article in SCC, where they put a 3" dump pipe on their Sentra race car. It got them power and torque throughout the rev range.
sundevil, I know that article you're talking about where they compare bottom ends. They said they wanted to try and make a hybrid one day, so I think you're right.
sundevil, I know that article you're talking about where they compare bottom ends. They said they wanted to try and make a hybrid one day, so I think you're right.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
I read that the piston speeds at those revs were causing stress fractures on the stock crank...and that they were investigating rules and contractors for a reinforced one...Yell03SpecV said:
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
ah...fair enough...
the article I have didn't go that far into it...it was just Dave Coleman's day with that team...and made a brief comment about it...
Did they raise the redline any more? or is that pretty much the realistic ceiling?
the article I have didn't go that far into it...it was just Dave Coleman's day with that team...and made a brief comment about it...
Did they raise the redline any more? or is that pretty much the realistic ceiling?
anything is possible, but piston speeds get so ridiculously high, things get iffy. and im not really sure how much more power could be made past a certain rev range with that huge stroke. of course, thats when you start making sacrifices. i dont want a top end monster, so we'll err on the side of safety.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
yeah our engine is in a similar boat...very low rod ratio, so very high piston speeds...
You are correct..it gets to a certain point where the pistons are traveling through the intake stroke so fast that they simply cannont pull enough air in to make power...hence it can't breathe...big cams help to a certain point, high compression helps to a certain point...but you definately run out of room...You can strengthen everything all you want...and get a high stroke low rod ratio engine to hold 10,000rpm...but it still won't breathe, and not even be worth it...
You are correct..it gets to a certain point where the pistons are traveling through the intake stroke so fast that they simply cannont pull enough air in to make power...hence it can't breathe...big cams help to a certain point, high compression helps to a certain point...but you definately run out of room...You can strengthen everything all you want...and get a high stroke low rod ratio engine to hold 10,000rpm...but it still won't breathe, and not even be worth it...
the biggest key is making usable power. i've driven a few all motor honda b-series, and you have to rev the crap out of them to go anywhere. while those may be track only, it's certainly nearly useless to try and use in solo2. i'm hoping this motor will help the car be a prepared class ringer.
Ya, but with B-Series powered Civics weigh next to nothing, so you don't need any low-end. Having to rev them to make power is misleading, since they may make 'average' low to midrange power, and absolutely scream up high, the low/midrange seems so weak in comparison. Your Spec V needs torque to move all that weight.
My car only weighs 2350lbs, so I have the pleasure of building for horsepower too.
My car only weighs 2350lbs, so I have the pleasure of building for horsepower too.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Yeah very good point Josh...especially the 1.8L B's...<2500lbs and near perfect gear ratio's...they can absolutely scream in the right conditions...
No offense Yell03, my friend with the V gets in over his head quite a bit with "stupid Honda's"...even with his bolt-ons he has been eaten easily by more or less stock K20 Type S's...and even worse by some of the older hatchback GSR-swapped powered civics...
I realize though that you have put a lot more work and thought into your build...and are making much more power...and you lucked out too...he has an O2 I think, or whatever year prior to the gearbox changes...he is stuck with a way short 1st and 2nd, and then crap long 3rd gear...all married to a nice flat torque curve...that never made sense to me, other than Nissan's marketing...
anyway dude do you know your rod length yet?
No offense Yell03, my friend with the V gets in over his head quite a bit with "stupid Honda's"...even with his bolt-ons he has been eaten easily by more or less stock K20 Type S's...and even worse by some of the older hatchback GSR-swapped powered civics...
I realize though that you have put a lot more work and thought into your build...and are making much more power...and you lucked out too...he has an O2 I think, or whatever year prior to the gearbox changes...he is stuck with a way short 1st and 2nd, and then crap long 3rd gear...all married to a nice flat torque curve...that never made sense to me, other than Nissan's marketing...
anyway dude do you know your rod length yet?
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*sigh* i dont have the fsm at work here, so i cant look it up. (rod length)
and i have nothing against the b-series, they can be VERY fast... but a torquey motor in a car that weighs just under 2600 w/driver (im not big) will inherently be much better on a solo2 course. short, tight, and technical. *big smile*
anyways, the 02 gearing was terrible for anything that required 3rd gear or above. the 03 and 04 are geared much better.... and the maxima final drive is always an option.
and i have nothing against the b-series, they can be VERY fast... but a torquey motor in a car that weighs just under 2600 w/driver (im not big) will inherently be much better on a solo2 course. short, tight, and technical. *big smile*
anyways, the 02 gearing was terrible for anything that required 3rd gear or above. the 03 and 04 are geared much better.... and the maxima final drive is always an option.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
2600lbs? how much s*** did you remove from that thing? I thought the curb weight was like 2700lbs...and factory curb weights are usually conservative...so wet and with a driver its usually much higher...
you're right, they are. but most are in touring or stock classes. you need a lot of balls to haul around in a prepared class.
arguments aside, that weight = one seat, instrument cluster, soundproofing removed (dry ice method) and just about everything else. only a tach, shifter, and pedals remain inside (you get the idea)
basically curb weight isnt an issue. even at full interior weight (with me, and minus the soundproofing) the car ticks in at just over 2700. and while there are plenty of hondas ripping it up, the B15 sentra is at a loss for big race standings outside of the speed world challenge. i guess, really, this is going to be done just to do it. it will be a great all around motor, and still incredibly liveable around town. like i said before, i never took a liking to the "rev the crap out of it" feel. i grew up around muscle cars, and while i admire imports, theres not much like a big serving of torque. i'm not building this to impress dyno fan boys, or shame the honda crowd, but rather to have a great all around car that is pleasant to drive. a lot of people in the import community do not have this mindset, and i think it's a shame.
arguments aside, that weight = one seat, instrument cluster, soundproofing removed (dry ice method) and just about everything else. only a tach, shifter, and pedals remain inside (you get the idea)
basically curb weight isnt an issue. even at full interior weight (with me, and minus the soundproofing) the car ticks in at just over 2700. and while there are plenty of hondas ripping it up, the B15 sentra is at a loss for big race standings outside of the speed world challenge. i guess, really, this is going to be done just to do it. it will be a great all around motor, and still incredibly liveable around town. like i said before, i never took a liking to the "rev the crap out of it" feel. i grew up around muscle cars, and while i admire imports, theres not much like a big serving of torque. i'm not building this to impress dyno fan boys, or shame the honda crowd, but rather to have a great all around car that is pleasant to drive. a lot of people in the import community do not have this mindset, and i think it's a shame.
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