New MSP/P5/MP3/Sedan Radiator!!!
- Thread starter MP3racer
- Start date
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- MSP 1145
yessir. the only thing you'll have to pay after the 289 is shipping!
kool ....what no pics(poke)?????
As soon as I get the prototype in hand I will get pics posted.....(toetap)
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- MSP 1145
we're all excited to get this thing. i just need mah paycheck!
littlemimus
fear the mighty sandvich!
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- Mazdaspeed protege 2003
payment sent!!!! XD
what you won me.......
littlemimus
fear the mighty sandvich!
- :
- Mazdaspeed protege 2003
what? lol
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6 more guys and we can get this made
2. boostdprotegelx
3. littlemimus - Payment Sent
4. MS_Rick - Payment Sent
5. harrisonchang
6. MSPM1chele (if here before june)
7. AusOrion - Payment Sent
8. gtrs28
9. MSP 2731
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12. Hellin1978
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6 more guys and we can get this made
littlemimus
fear the mighty sandvich!
- :
- Mazdaspeed protege 2003
come onnnnnnn
I don't see how it's "only 4000 cars" when the stock MSP radiator is the exact same thing as the turbo diesel 323 in europe, and there's quite a few people there that chip them and boost the hell out of them to be fast... this only unfairly forces everyone who ever wants a radiator upgrade while keeping it low boost to go FMIC... I as well as others I'm sure would be interested if a turbo diesel/MSP size was available... maybe not now but in the future is acceptable, but "never" isn't... I also think the reason why there's great interest for this P5 sized radiator as it is right now is because there's always have been a desire for an even higher quality construction than what's available in the market for the protege right now, something that other popular cars have been enjoying for years that we all envy upon.... I for one never had any interest in ron davis, PWR, or corksport, no offense to anyone... people who know me should have figured out by now how anal I am about quality
also, I understand the desire to make it fully bolt on, but cooling efficiency can be further squeezed out by making the radiator taller, the same height as the diesel radiator (which sits flush with the top of the core support instead of an inch lower on non-MSP/non-diesel)... while the stock non-turbo diesel radiator will fit into an MSP with FMIC and use the stock MSP mounting brackets and fans, the P5 radiator brackets and fan won't... but this doesn't mean adapter brackets for the fans can't be supplied with a taller radiator or separately for some marginal cost... the only thing then is just forcing non-MSP owners to buy radiator brackets from mazda, big deal... corksport, ron davis, and PWR have already been forcing people to buy non-MSP radiator brackets as well as fans because the MSP fans are too tall and won't fit
to me, it makes more sense to make a taller diesel size radiator with additional fan brackets for the shorter non-turbo fans than to make P5 height radiator that forces MSP owners to buy fans.... doing this instead just seems like a better compromise because nobody has to spend hundreds more on fans and it will work for either car through some cheap bracket interchanging... partially fully bolt (in the mindset of nothing custom needed to be done) on rather than fully bolt on for the sake of even better performance seems to be worth the sacrifice to me
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Edwin, going to the MSP height/P5 width is something that a few of us mentioned to Tom (MP3Racer) in the initial EOI thread. While Tom acknowledged our suggestions, it seemed that this kind of design was not workable within the budget provided.
I personally would love to see the radiator going to MSP height and sitting flush with the top of the core support. One thing going for this is that the design process hasn't started yet, so there is some hope yet that this result might be achieved.
I think that the suggestion of having two sets of top mounting points for both P5/sedan and MSP fans with a taller radiator is a good one. One potential issue I see with having the taller radiator is whether it will interfere with the P5/sedan "snorkel" that sits over top of the stock radiator.
I look forward to getting the design process started soon
I agree with TheMan on the radiator height. There are two reasons for getting an aluminum radiator, efficiency and aesthetics. A full height radiator addresses both. New aluminum brackets could be supplied as part of the kit or you could buy factory MSP or Street Unit billet MSP brackets.
I understand AusOrion concern about the stock air box snorkel not fitting. But realistically how many people in the market for a performance aluminum radiator will still be running the stock air box?
I understand AusOrion concern about the stock air box snorkel not fitting. But realistically how many people in the market for a performance aluminum radiator will still be running the stock air box?
yes it will definitely interfere with the "snorkel"... but when you're putting a radiator like this into your car, it's generally assumed that you have already done other extensive modifications that ditch the stock intake.... again, it's a minor inconvenience to P5 owners, just like having to buy the diesel radiator brackets, boo hoo....Edwin, going to the MSP height/P5 width is something that a few of us mentioned to Tom (MP3Racer) in the initial EOI thread. While Tom acknowledged our suggestions, it seemed that this kind of design was not workable within the budget provided.
I personally would love to see the radiator going to MSP height and sitting flush with the top of the core support. One thing going for this is that the design process hasn't started yet, so there is some hope yet that this result might be achieved.
I think that the suggestion of having two sets of top mounting points for both P5/sedan and MSP fans with a taller radiator is a good one. One potential issue I see with having the taller radiator is whether it will interfere with the P5/sedan "snorkel" that sits over top of the stock radiator.
I look forward to getting the design process started soon
it won't be possible to simply make two sets of fan mounting holes on the end tanks... the P5 fans sit too low to even reach the diesel radiator end tanks.... the only possible solution are adapter brackets that will allow it to reach the fans... I also thought about how the brackets could possibly rub against the fins, but it's not an issue if the fans do not allow the use of the stock fan bolts but to have studs welded in part of the brackets instead.... making use of oversized flange nuts to achieve the same mounting purpose... thus the back side against the fins will just be smooth/flat and not have any bolts coming from the fans poking into the fins
it is however possible to make mounting holes for the two different diesel radiator fans... the turbo diesel radiator fan is placed in about an inch over to the right side (closer to the hose) than the non-turbo diesel one... the turbo diesel radiator fan's upper mounting tab is also about 1/2" higher than the radiator core itself, but it's not a problem if a "nub" is welded in place that can reach that height.... doing this will allow ANY protege owner from anywhere in the world, regardless of engine and model to install this radiator without having to buy fans... like I said already, brackets are cheap, fans aren't... so boohoo to the ones that are forced to buy brackets... it's more fair IMO than making people replace fans just to use a nice radiator like the existing upgrades do... when your car has gone that many extensive modifications and require a radiator like this, one can't reasonable sacrifices won't be made... many probably won't be reusing stock fans, but there will still be quite a few who do (at least temporarily) because they just gone broke buying an expensive radiator
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I just sent payment, thanks Tom!
1. o0n8 - Payment Sent
2. boostdprotegelx
3. littlemimus - Payment Sent
4. MS_Rick - Payment Sent
5. harrisonchang
6. MSPM1chele (if here before june)
7. AusOrion - Payment Sent
8. gtrs28
9. MSP 2731 - Payment Sent
10. Beat - Payment Sent
11. pw~mp5 - Payment Sent
12. Hellin1978
13. Discospeed
14. SleepyMSP - Payment Sent
15. Jaysanooch - Payment Sent
16. lemondrops - Payment Sent
17. ear8051
1. o0n8 - Payment Sent
2. boostdprotegelx
3. littlemimus - Payment Sent
4. MS_Rick - Payment Sent
5. harrisonchang
6. MSPM1chele (if here before june)
7. AusOrion - Payment Sent
8. gtrs28
9. MSP 2731 - Payment Sent
10. Beat - Payment Sent
11. pw~mp5 - Payment Sent
12. Hellin1978
13. Discospeed
14. SleepyMSP - Payment Sent
15. Jaysanooch - Payment Sent
16. lemondrops - Payment Sent
17. ear8051
Got some more details from the engineer at Mishimoto regarding the planned radiator...
The top tank will be 45mm wide.
The header plate that attaches the top tank to the core is 50mm
The core is 36mm and is fairly centered in the middle of the header plate/tank
Hope this helps with your determiniation for fitment??
Thanks MSP2731!! We are getting close!! I just wanted to let the rest of you know that the longer we go before the order is placed the longer this project may take from inception. Other radiator projects at Mishimoto are taking our place in line....
I have researched the options that have been discussed.
Regarding the radiator height. If the rad is made to sit flush or basically MSP height all non-MSP owners will need to replace their upper radiator brackets with the flat MSP versions. Mazda currently sells these for $42/each and there are only 11 (not even enough for six sets!) available in the US.
Obviously, this will not work.
If the radaitor is made sedan/P5/MP3 height, only MSP owners will need to purchase upper radiator brackets. They are available from Mazda for $12/each and several more are available (besides the large used market from salvage/used part sales).
Also, speaking with the engineer the slight increase in height would give very minimal increase in cooling capacity since the core and end tanks are already considerably thicker than the OE radiator's.
Regarding fitment of the MSP fans to this radiator. I have studied both systems and the fans. I like the idea of making it possible to use the fans from the MSP on this radiator to prevent further cost (since cost was one of the factors in the initial considerations).
I agree that the fan on the passenger side of the radiator (furthest away from the SMIC) would not allow a second set of mounts since it basically mounts in the same place just a bit taller.
My idea to allow this fan would be some adapters that would have studs on the bottom to screw into the threaded holes in the rad for the seda/P5 fan and be aprox. 1/2' thick with a threaded hole in the top to bolt the fan into.
For the MSP fan closest to the SMIC that sits aprox. 1" over from the sedan/P5 fan mount I would like to have the extra set of mounting nubs welded into the top tank but I think it might "clutter" the top tank with extra mounting points that won'e be used (ie an extra set of mounting nubs would be present no matter which fan system was used).
Again, adapters could be made to space over from the sedan/P5 mounting points to allow the use of the MSP fan.
The one point I need to check again is the lower tab placement between the sedan/P5 and the MSP fan on whether it is identical like the other fan or another lower tab will be needed.
Let me know your thoughts.....
