New gt3071r struggling to build boost. Low on power. :(. I'm very confused

[ap123]

I recently installed my new gt3071r but it's struggling to build boost. I'm very confused the turbo is brand new and I can hear the damn thing trying to spool. I'm getting 7 psi from it but it stuggles to build up
This is what I've done so far and it made absolutely no chage at all.
- checked for exhaust leaks, I don't hear any. I also put soupy water on the manifold in the morning when it was cold and didn't find anything.
- added pretention to the WGA, nothing
- disconnected the boost line to the WGA so it'll stay shut, nothing
- pressure tested the entire piping system to 1.5kg/cm^2 (about 22psi) it's leak free

Im really fursterated not sure what else it could be. Before this I had a gt28r and that build boost super fast I was running it at 15psi and never had an issue. The engine sounds smooth as always, doesnt have any vac leaks in getting 20inHg at idle. Plugs look new.

 

[ap123]

I not sure what your trying to get at. Its all very theoretical, and i've studied it a few times before. and i used it to choose this turbo. im planing on getting it tuned for 20psi very soon. but i cant even get it to do anything past 7psi?!
It feels exactly like a boost leak, but i already pressure tested everything.

I also did a bunch of research im well within what the turbo was intended for. Everyone that runs this turbo gets good boost with out any real lag on multiple applications that are 2.0l. for the most part they get to full boost of 20psi by 3.2 to 4k rpm. Mine is struggling to get past 5 psi at 4.5k rpm. something isn't right.

Im going to put a helper spring on the WGA incase its getting opened by manifold pressure but i dont think thats the issue. But its worth a shot. Thats the last thing i have left that garrett says to check.

if that doesn't work im going to call up the tuner.

 

[JamesCH]

Check your boost controller, BC plumbing, and WG actuation hardware. Your WG actuator should be preloaded a little if you didn't know that. I've always had to re-tension WGs on new turbos. I usually set the WGs to open with a strong push from two hands on the linkage.

It sounds like your turbo is not getting proper exhaust flow to spool up, as if the WG is just flapping in the breeze.

 

[JamesCH]

Also, have you checked VERY carefully for exhaust leaks? Ideally with the engine under load.

 

[tweety2300]

Mine did something similar when the vaccume line for the bov came off

 

[Spiced MSP]

yeah, you need to double and triple check everything mentioned. I ran a GT3071R with no issues. what A/R is it?

 

[ap123]

im going to revisit the possibility of exhaust leak.

I went out 2 days ago early in morning and put soapy water where the manifold mates with the cylinder head. and rev'ed it a little, i didnt see any bubbles, i dont hear any leaks, but i guess it could still be that. I forgot to check the turbo against the manifold...

I installed the WGA with pretention, i have now tightened it 2x with out any result, this last time the hole is way back from the lever and i had my friend put air to the actuator so i can hook it back on.

All the vac lines look good, and if it was that i wouldn't be getting 20inHg during idle.


Any one know a better way to check for exhaust leaks at the manifold?

and its a .50a/r comp and .86 a/r turbine

 

[tweety2300]

How hard is it to spin the turbo by hand

 

[fuadmsp]

ur bov or bypass is broken leaking under boost

 

[808MP5]

Any one know a better way to check for exhaust leaks at the manifold?

and its a .50a/r comp and .86 a/r turbine

Seafoam to check pre-turbo exhaust leaks

.86ar? you must mean .82ar either way that's fairly high for a 2.0L
you need to be pushing a lot of exhaust to get that thing to spool quickly

what gear are you pulling in?... how high are you taking the rpms?...
what type of exhaust are you using? how are you tuning?

btw... thanks for your How-to in your sig... very good reading

 

[JamesCH]

Yeah... with a 0.82ar exhaust housing you'd be lucky to spool much before 4krpm if nothing was amiss.

 

[ap123]

this is the turbo: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-026&Category_Code=GRT

its a higher a/r because its a smaller turbine wheel then most GT3071r's.

I tried checking with the soapy water again just now. and i also check the manifold to turbo and still nothing. Im going to take some pictures and see if i can make a video of that im experiencing. But first im going to try the sea foam hopefully that will be the final nail in the coffin for exhaust leaks.

If its just that the turbo isnt getting enough flow and not and exhaust leak i would assume that my tuner should be able to take care of it with timing adjustments. right now im just on SSAFC, for the tune ill be installing Haltch sprint 500, 750cc injectors. I have a larger down pipe, but its to the stock exhaust b/c over here they ticket for after market exhaust. I know that slows down spool up time but nothing like this.

Im doing third gear pulls when i test this out.

 

[JamesCH]

Can you get a few pictures of the turbo as-installed, WG actuator, BC plumbing, etc? The more the better. We might notice something amiss.

 

[ap123]

well i did the sea foam looks like there is an exhaust leak between the manifold and the turbo. Thank you so much for telling me that! I didn't see anything then i rev'ed it a little and wala! a faint mist of white smoke came out. I took a picture of some dark left over residue where i saw the smoke come out from. Im going to be ordering an SCE gasket.

JamesCH i dont have a BC hooked up at the moment since im untuned there is no point. But here are the pictures. My BOV is in the bumper so i dont have a picture of the piping (synapse synchronic BOV) but thats has been pressure tested and it holds pressure just fine.

where i saw the leak, you can see the darker tone area where i saw the smoke come from.

really hard to see the little hose WGA but best pic i could take.

also just a side note for those having issue with clearance between the down pipe and water neck, this is how i solved that issue. let me know if you want more details.

 

[808MP5]

glad the seafoam found the leak... what's that over the turbo? that could also be hindering spool... best to put a good k&n filter on that badboy.. or a fujita... even a small exhaust leak shouldn't be that bad... try without the thing covering the compressor just for one short pull... but god forbid something flies in

 

[ap123]

its k&n air filter media. (AKA i cut up a filter and stretched the media over the inlet)
i went through the k&n catalog and found the best case senario after taking measurements. I tried installing it but no matter what i did the clutch slave cylinder wont allow it. So after spending 50 bucks on the new filter i decided this was the best solution. Ill give it a go with out the covering i dont think it'll change anything though.

 

[jeffmsp]

unhook the vac line to the wastegate and go do a quick pull.

let off the gas if the boost rises higher than your setup can take / is tuned for.

if there is no change that pretty much rules out actuation issues, however there COULD also be a slight chance that the WG is being obstructed and cannot fully close.

what kind of ignition timing are you running?

On my setup I am running an turbo that is oversized for my application (T4OE.60cold.63 hot on a 1.8l motor) and I found that I needed to add some timing in the low end to help spool it up a bit quicker. A few degrees (like 3-4 degrees timing bump between 2000-3500) made a noticeable difference in spool (like 2 psi more before 3500rpm).

 

[ap123]

yea thats what i was thinking, the tuner should be able to use some timing witchcraft to get it to spool faster once i get it tuned so i wasn't too worried. Right now im just using the MSP ecu and SSAFC.

I tried previously to take the WG out the equation, i pulled off the line for the WGA line, plugged nipple on the charge pipe, and did a pull, no real change. Last time i retention the WGA the flapper felt like it was moving as it should.

But now im not going to do anymore test until i change the gasket(like a week or two from now), and ill inspect everything. Ill probably get started on the Haltech wiring the same day. I orded a bunch of Deutsch plugs to make a super clean install, and to make it easy to pass smog later this year.

Im going to put a SCE gasket and spray everything with permatex spray copper gasket. Im also going to call SCE today to see if it woud be possible to get them to make me an exhaust manifold gasket.

 

[ap123]

Update.

So i got a hold of the SCE gasket early and i changed the gaskets earlier today, in case anyone is interested its instock here so hurry and buy one before they're out, i ordered two. : http://www.zspeedperformance.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=t25

There is no signs of leaks between the manifold and the cylinder head. I checked the manifold and the turbo mating surfaces with a straight edge, everything looks good. Got a new oem manifold gasket as always and this time im trying something new (new to me at lest) . i sprayed everything a layer of spray copper gasket and and i'm letting it set over night. I also installed a helper spring on the WGA just in case.

Looking at the flange gasket it confirms the fact that there was a leak. You can see near my index finger where the leak was. This gasket has been there for about 1k miles so i'm kinda surprised that with the leak, and loss of power i was experiencing it doesn't look worst.

Hopefully it solves the issue i can't wait to drive it tomorrow.

 

[tweety2300]

Msp doesn't have a special gasket just a standard t2 flange, in your case I'm assuming its a t3 flange.

Here's mine after 10k miles, if that. Cheap gaskets do not last especially with high heat