AzteCypher
black ops modifications..
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- 2001 Mazda Protege LX
Oooh that'd be cool. I've had to put my efforts aside because of the new baby but they're still simmering on the back burner.
NA Tech Race to 100whp per 1000cc's
- Thread starter LordWorm
- Start date
I probably have the highest HP street driven NA FSDE P5 in the U.S. right now, which aint saying much, but I built it all myself it's reliable so far and it sounds great. I just have to get it on a dyno, not this G Tech BS that I can't get to read right.
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Alright, since you asked here's whats done;
Microtech LT10s.
10.4:1 FSZE pistons, head milled .050 which equates to around 11.4:1 comp ratio
P&P head,3 angle valve job,Supertech springs/titanium retainers
Integral stg 2.5 cams/adjustable camgears
Portmatched 626 intake/custom 90 degree 3" into 2.75" CAI which runs down into fenderwell,sealed with a custom air scoop.
440cc injectors.
Unorthodox underdrive crank pulley.
Fidanza 7lb flywheel
Mazdaspeed LSD/Spec stg 2 clutch
AWR header,SLS midpipe,Magnaflow catback. No Cats.
Catchcan for PCV,No EGR/mass airflow
AWR oil pan,AWR mounts.
Microtech LT10s.
10.4:1 FSZE pistons, head milled .050 which equates to around 11.4:1 comp ratio
P&P head,3 angle valve job,Supertech springs/titanium retainers
Integral stg 2.5 cams/adjustable camgears
Portmatched 626 intake/custom 90 degree 3" into 2.75" CAI which runs down into fenderwell,sealed with a custom air scoop.
440cc injectors.
Unorthodox underdrive crank pulley.
Fidanza 7lb flywheel
Mazdaspeed LSD/Spec stg 2 clutch
AWR header,SLS midpipe,Magnaflow catback. No Cats.
Catchcan for PCV,No EGR/mass airflow
AWR oil pan,AWR mounts.
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- 03.5 YLW MSP
Any pics od the engine bay? stock rods and stock redline?
Stock JDM pistons and rods. I do have an oversize set of 11.1:1 WISECOS with K-1 long rods that need to be inserted which with the milling would be around 12:1 total. Rev limit set at 7000 with those cams and the headwork it will keep breathing even higher.
Attachments
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TXMazdaSpeeder
T is for Turbo
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- 2003 Black Mica MSP #566
Its by no means a terrible engine. I could easily hit 100bhp per liter without boost but itd be so radically cammed and an insane amount of headwork that it wouldnt be worth a damn as a street car. As it sits im making ~330 to the wheels at 5.7L and still getting over 20mpg. But I wont clutter this thread with a big ol long explanation.
My buddy runs a '69 396 Nova A stock manual NHRA, 10.40's @ 127. The motor is built with all the best race parts he's allowed to use, hollow valve stems, aluminum heads, high comp pistons, etc..NA. He says he's making about 550 hp. Its about 6.5 liters so that's about 84.6 hp/Liter and there's not much more he can get out of it. 4 valve motors have way more valve area to displacement than a 2 valve motor so they have a better foundation for horsepower capabilty.Don't ask me why Top Fuel still uses pushrods, I don't know at this point.
-l
The problem just doesn't stem from the fact that the engine uses push rods but the head design. Not 4 valves vs 2, but the way the head flows. Modern engines have 2-3 valves on each side of the block, allowing for air to flow across the top of the cylinder head unimpeded (or relatively so in comparison). As the valves are directly offset.
This along with more valves (it *is* possible to use 4 valves per cylinder with pushrod but it gets rather complex and tricky) helps to create a better bottom end and mid range as down low air tends to flow around the sides of the valves. Theres also the issue of valve float associated with pushrod engines.
Also as a side note installshield has you beat
Other then that you probably do have the highest output 
This along with more valves (it *is* possible to use 4 valves per cylinder with pushrod but it gets rather complex and tricky) helps to create a better bottom end and mid range as down low air tends to flow around the sides of the valves. Theres also the issue of valve float associated with pushrod engines.
Also as a side note installshield has you beat
Other then that you probably do have the highest output Did you read my post? Go back and re-read it thoroughly before you spout off. Could you tell us who makes a mass production pushrod 4 valve gasoline engine? Another 24 year old who knows it all on this forum.
The problem just doesn't stem from the fact that the engine uses push rods but the head design. Not 4 valves vs 2, but the way the head flows. Modern engines have 2-3 valves on each side of the block, allowing for air to flow across the top of the cylinder head unimpeded (or relatively so in comparison). As the valves are directly offset.
-eThis along with more valves (it *is* possible to use 4 valves per cylinder with pushrod but it gets rather complex and tricky) helps to create a better bottom end and mid range as down low air tends to flow around the sides of the valves. Theres also the issue of valve float associated with pushrod engines.
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Also as a side note installshield has you beat
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Wow seriously?
Firstly, I wasn't spouting off at all. Secondly, I was building on what you said. I fail to see where I implied that 4 valve pushrod engines are mass produced all I said was that its possible...
But the only engines that Im aware of that use 4 valves per cylinder and pushrod are diesel. Then again the only pushrod engine that Australia gets that I know of comes from GM.
Firstly, I wasn't spouting off at all. Secondly, I was building on what you said. I fail to see where I implied that 4 valve pushrod engines are mass produced all I said was that its possible...
But the only engines that Im aware of that use 4 valves per cylinder and pushrod are diesel. Then again the only pushrod engine that Australia gets that I know of comes from GM.
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I made an absolutely clear statement in post #942. To the best of my knowledge Installshield's car was mostly a school project and has been long gone. My car is currently daily driven and very reliable,so why even argue the point about something that doesn't exist anymore? if there's another NA FSDE out there that's making more power In my country, I'd like to know about it. Eventually I will change to the forged pistons and rods and run a good amount of nitrous.
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It was/is used daily with a lower rev limit to increase the engine life. Still crazy high rev limit though for the rest of us, 8k red line or something.
I know he had a few issues at one point in winter with the engine reciprocating weight due to the light weight pistons and rods used, but was still used
I do believe you are correct about the right now part as he removed the engine from the car some time ago, forget why or if it made it back into the car or not.
Its a rather agricultural engine design. Pushrods? puhlease. yes you can get them to kick out a lot of power NA, no doubt - but comparing them with anything out of japan or europe is a big stretch. The concept of a big american engine is power the rough displacement, not through advances in technology. Any platform can be made to perform given enough money thrown at it. But check out what european V8's produce in terms of specific output ... 100hp/L *shouldn't* be a big deal in this day and age.
That said, the FSDE is a pretty terrible platform for making NA power, which is why I set the challenge years ago - 100hp/L *at the wheels* is incredibly hard to achieve on the engines most of us have and not something you can just go out and do with off the shelf parts - it would require throwing a crap tonne of money at custom bits.
Top fuel engines use a fairly old engine configuration mostly because the rules say so. If the engines were "free" those guys would be throwing all sorts of money at rediculous engines. Keeping it all hemi elephants keeps the costs in check - what the top teams have done with this platform though is nothing short of amazing.
There is alot more to it than valves per cylinder yes - combustion chamber design, port design, rotating assembly, parasitic drag, compression...lots of things go into making a 'modern' engine produce high specific outputs NA. Pushrod engines are obviously not the way to do itThe problem just doesn't stem from the fact that the engine uses push rods but the head design. Not 4 valves vs 2, but the way the head flows. Modern engines have 2-3 valves on each side of the block, allowing for air to flow across the top of the cylinder head unimpeded (or relatively so in comparison). As the valves are directly offset.
This along with more valves (it *is* possible to use 4 valves per cylinder with pushrod but it gets rather complex and tricky) helps to create a better bottom end and mid range as down low air tends to flow around the sides of the valves. Theres also the issue of valve float associated with pushrod engines.
Also as a side note installshield has you beat
keep it civil guys. Please. I don't often have to moderate this forum and i'd rather not go deleting people's shitposts. Installshields car was a school project. It saw very little road use from what I have heard and has been indefinitely parked up. br289165: we have no idea about what power you are making. Go get a dyno before making claims that you are the most powerful NA in the USA.
Again I don't want to speak for Installshield but I believe the engine was a little too 'crazy' - he also had some issues getting a suitable ECU for it.It was/is used daily with a lower rev limit to increase the engine life. Still crazy high rev limit though for the rest of us, 8k red line or something.
I know he had a few issues at one point in winter with the engine reciprocating weight due to the light weight pistons and rods used, but was still used
I do believe you are correct about the right now part as he removed the engine from the car some time ago, forget why or if it made it back into the car or not.
Um... not so bad if the engine is properly balanced. The worst point of vibration on my ride is actually idle - the engine smooths out the higher i rev it. It gets quite loud at 7100rpm, but its not vibrating badly. (thats a completely stock bottom end.. obviously much past my rev limit on stock internals will be catastrophic, but longer rods, lighter/balanced rotating assembly etc, 8k is certainly 'doable')
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