Na All The Way

[tidy protege]

I have decided the fate of my car, today i was helping a mate of mine play with the top end of his engine and it was all suprisingly simple. He has done the following and acheved he performance i wouldnt mind having except he has dont it in a 15 year older car with 200000 more kays.
He has done:

Extractors and 2/1/2 system
Chip
Cams
CAI
Machined the head

As a result i want to do the following to achieve about 125-130 kw at the fly can any one give me advice on the following things and recomend brands I could use.

OBX stainless steel headers with a stainless steel mandrel bent 2/1/4 system

ECU dont know what brand yet?

Cams again i dont know what brand but i mite look at a set of JDM cams on corksport

CAI probably injen as they have a proven track record and are very popular

I dont know if i will machine the head put your 2 cents in i wouldnt mind hearing what you all think.

Intake manifold JDM of the shelf which should help but if there are any other options i will more than happily look at them.

So the ball is in your court put your 2 cents in and it will be greatly appreaciated.


Cheers

 

[twilightprotege]

woohoo!!!

you need to spend the next 5 weeks reading through the posts in the NA tech section! hehehe

exhaust - good.

cams - NO! you actually have the j-spec intake cam as it is, but the american exhaust cam. the mazdaspeed exhaust cam is the same specs as the j-spec intake cam, just repinned for the exhaust side. however, i cannot strongly suggest enough that you get a custom exhaust cam atleast. intake cam is ok. the intake side flows apx 25-30% more than the exhaust side, so in theory you need to have the exhaust cam 25-30% larger to get equal flow (and get the most power for NA)

ecu - two options. do it now and retune it all after every mod and get the most out of every mod, or leave it til the end like me and get a big jump at the end. in terms of ecu, xede or unichip will be fine for interceptors

cai - good

head work - if that is your goal i wouldnt worry about it. money better spent on light weight flywheel and good clutch, engine mounts, and maybe a new sway bar etc?

and you're right. an engine is rather simple. hell it was designed over 100 years ago (the basics anyway). you just need to be confident with working on it (and ask questions here) and you'll be fine.

 

[twilightprotege]

gee i bet you didnt expect me to be the first to reply LOL

 

[FunkyBuddha]

So 170hp at the flywheel

ECU - try a piggyback system like the Greaddy Emanage or the Haltech E6X(?)
those can control timing, fuel, air, ignition, etc etc

cai - good enough

exhaust choice looks good. Also throw in a high flow secondary catalytic converter

Cams- get some adjustable cam gears to see what kind of increases you get (dyno time) before going custom cams.

Headwork.- up to you. You can port and polish the head, and port/flow match the intake manifold. up to you. but money can be spent somewhere else.

Lightweight flywheel/better clutch

Lighter/smaller pulleys

Underdrive crank pulley

 

[tidy protege]

some questions

Firstly i just want to do the cams and cam gears where can i find them and what exactly do different cams do and how much do they cost.

Secondly on top of the extractors will the 2/1/4 inch system do the job adequately and if so can you recomend which is better peformance and note wise stainless or mild grade steel for the exuast systme its self.

Thirdly what sort of money am i looking at paying for the cai preferbly injen.

Lastly ecu'wise i have heard stories that custom chips are better as the commercial brands like xide and chiptorque just advance your timing where as the other chips are more extensive in what they actually do. Also where and what sort of money would i look a paying for the an ecu.

And is 125-130kw at the fly too optimistic for my little 1.8, after this little shopping list it is inevitable for me to get a new clutch any ideas, although this may sound dumb would an lsd minimise the obvious wheel spin problem often associated with powerful front wheel drives. I dont mind travelling to sydney to have my work done can anyone make recomendations.

I am hoping to have a 125kw 323 for less than 6 grand as if it gets much dearer i am approaching turbo prices.

 

[tidy protege]

and yes twilight i new you would be the first person to take a real interest to my na plans. I appreaciate all the info you have offered me in the past and that is what has conreted my plans id love to see mid to high 15 second quater times. I would love to be the second fastest 323 in aus.

 

[coldie123]

i want 130kw too!!!
is it hard to do a port and polish yourself? i've seen a website that shows how to DIY headwork, provided you have the right tools, and it sounded like u just need a dremel tool with the right attachments.

also twilight, you seem to know a lot of differences between our SP20s and the US P5s. i think it would be a good idea if we start a thread in the aussie section that lists all these differences, so that we know what mods would work on the SP20 and would only work for the P5. what do you think?

 

[Zed]

We should start an Aussie 130kW club coz that's my end goal too. I'm currently sitting on about 114kW with just a replacement K&N filter, cat-back exhaust and unichip. Intake will be on its way soon, rest of exhaust at some point next year I imagine. With a little tuning I should hopefully get there.

 

[twilightprotege]

tidy - q1 - personally i wouldnt worry about cam gears if 130whp / 130kw at the fly is your goal. but an exhaust cam is a must. all it does is open your exhaust valves quicker, longer and more all to get as much gases out as possible. also, because you're getting the gases out, it creates a vacuum in the chamber and when the intake valves open, they suck in more air.
q2 - 2.25 is fine for your goal. performance wise and sound wise mild and stainless are the same. however, stainless will well outlast mild and also it's lighter than mild so you're saving weight
q3 - about $250usd inc shipping for a new one...
q4 - yes a standalone like the haltech e6x is far better at tuning your engine, however for your goal that's overkill. an xede or unichip will be fine. also fyi, they dont just advance the timing, the cut or add more fuel to the mix to get optimum air/fuel ratio and therefore maximum power. 12.5:1 (air:fuel) is a good mix. 14.7:1 is perfect, but not good for power (burns very very very very very very very very very very hot). that's only used at idle. at the moment my a/f is below 11 damn i need an ecu
q5 - 130kw at the fly wont be a problem, pricewise - $3500 give or take.

oh and i reckon with your lower weight than the sp20 you might get into the high 14's

coldie - i wouldnt p&p myself. you'd get different flows between cylinders with is bad, esp when you start to tune the engine. you could be tuning the a/f ratio and 1 cylinder is rich and the next one is lean (obviously over dramatised, but it's possible).
differences in the engines. not much.
we have ////////// they have
9.7:1 comp ratio // 9.1:1
OBDI ecu ///////// OBDII
j-spec intake cam / smaller american-spec intake cam
that's about it (well that i can think off the top of my head)

zed with the intake and header you'll be at 130 no problem. i did a dyno run today with my new intake cam and got 126.6kw at the fly / 94.3kw atw. and like i said that was so so so rich. i'd easily be at 140kw at the fly with ecu tuning

 

[sabrelli]

ill be in for 130kw goal.
then we can flog those mazda3s who think theyre better than us!!!!!!!!

 

[ahb11m]

i'll do it


i need a drink.....

 

[tidy protege]

My brothers sube is thirstier than an irish sailer what can we do ?

Can some one give me some advice what my family can do to improve the fuel economy of my brothers subaru. We havent been thrashing it at all and it only seems to get 400 kays of a tank

 

[JEB83]

unichip it

 

[coldie123]

Can some one give me some advice what my family can do to improve the fuel economy of my brothers subaru. We havent been thrashing it at all and it only seems to get 400 kays of a tank

tidy - maybe theres something wrong with one of the engine sensors? i guess u could take it to subaru to get it checked out.

zed - 114 sounds like a great start already! can u beat the sp23s yet?

twilight - i was thinking of a comprehensive list of differences, not just the engine, including little things like the need for a CEL fix, headlights pointing in different directions, wiper stalk on other side of steering column, location of primary cat etc. i might start one and see how it goes. btw are the underdrive pulleys the different? (i noticed u pulled out of the pulley gb)

also, how much does a unichip & tuning cost?

 

[ahb11m]

we have no cel
our pulleys are different
and what size is the subi tank?>

 

[twilightprotege]

yeah the pulleys are different unfortunately. they are likve the V6 ones, but only 4 sensor points instead of 4 (obviously).

unichip - new $800, tuning $500 atleast. zed would know the tuning cost. i'mk going for the xede and see how i go with that.

 

[coldie123]

yeah the pulleys are different unfortunately. they are likve the V6 ones, but only 4 sensor points instead of 4 (obviously).

unichip - new $800, tuning $500 atleast. zed would know the tuning cost. i'mk going for the xede and see how i go with that.

thats wierd how the P5s have different pulleys to us. whats the difference between a v6 pulley and a 4cyl one? and whats a sensor point?

wow i didn't realise tuning would be that expensive! i guess it would include quite a few dyno runs?

 

[old skool style]

Can some one give me some advice what my family can do to improve the fuel economy of my brothers subaru. We havent been thrashing it at all and it only seems to get 400 kays of a tank

thats like 75kms less than what they r meant 2 get from city driving, i'd get that checked out.

 

[tidy protege]

Team NA

Its clear that a few people have the same goals as mine with there cars so if we were to work together on our cars it will lessan the load for us when doing things like the CAI and the Cams and other things. 130kw is a common goal and it is good that unlike many other model forums we are looking at the NA route rather than the typical turbo path and we have the potential to have a team of very quick na mazda's. It would be great to build a bias in favour of NA over forced induction in the australian section of the forum twilight is evidence enough that the NA rout can and does work and that we can achieve mazda speed performance on a NA 323 as they run high 14s and with the ECU that will find its way to twilights car high 14s will be clearly achieved.

We should also work together to source other performance parts and asthetic parts we all know some one or a site that could be of great help to people in this forum, dig through your old mags and you can find great sites like www.unrealautosports.com also if any one knows other sites simular to protege garage and cork sport put the address down because it mite help your fellow members.

 

[twilightprotege]

yeah coldie ecu tuning isnt cheap. i know good places charge upwards of $100 per hour, usually higher. mercury motorsport here in bris now charges $140 per hour! and i'd say the difference with the underdrive pulleys has to do with the ecu. i'm pretty sure the v6 is OBDI like us, hence the same pulley design.

and good idea tidy - take the opportunity to share shipping costs and get to your goal quicker! also, if several people get the same ecu, tuning will be cheaper as that'll be a base map to work off for the next person and so forth