n/a ecu in an msp?

[Spiced MSP]

whose to say I mean if no ones done it and all. It is only 5-6psi I'm running and with a stock ecu your right it could break it, or possibly be what I'm after. The n/a fuel map v.s the extra air in from a msp on 5-6psi may just work fine.

you have a lot to learn man. Nobody...here.....has...done...this. Ask any current/active MSP owners this question. They will tell you exactly what we are all telling you right now. Only 5-6 psi huh? Have you seen how many people have blown stock engines with stock boost? And that's with a stock MSP ECU. Search the forum and you will see. But it's obvious that we are getting nowhere. You have all the answers you need. But it's your car and your decision. Go get a NA ECU, put it in your car and post back with the results. I'll sub to this thread and wait for yet another rant on how another MSP owner took the cheap way out and is paying for his decision by sitting on the side of the road with a huge hole in the block and a puddle of oil on the ground. Fast+cheap=not reliable. You have to pay to play with these cars. If you can't afford to tune it the right way, please don't do it at all. You will regret it.

 

[Spiced MSP]

sounds fine to me. stock these msp run up in 10.1 a/f at 4000rpm +

and they also have a lean spot as well. Which is where things can go wrong

 

[mikewashere]

you have a lot to learn man. Nobody...here.....has...done...this. Ask any current/active MSP owners this question. They will tell you exactly what we are all telling you right now. Only 5-6 psi huh? Have you seen how many people have blown stock engines with stock boost? And that's with a stock MSP ECU. Search the forum and you will see. But it's obvious that we are getting nowhere. You have all the answers you need. But it's your car and your decision. Go get a NA ECU, put it in your car and post back with the results. I'll sub to this thread and wait for yet another rant on how another MSP owner took the cheap way out and is paying for his decision by sitting on the side of the road with a huge hole in the block and a puddle of oil on the ground. Fast+cheap=not reliable. You have to pay to play with these cars. If you can't afford to tune it the right way, please don't do it at all. You will regret it.

I'm not dead stuck on doing it fyi, just think its funny you guys are so sure of yourself being you have no hard evidence on something. why knock something you don't know. Buddy above already posted of someone he remembers a while back that did it and ran low 13s for a/f.

 

[tweety2300]

sounds fine to me. stock these msp run up in 10.1 a/f at 4000rpm +

Shouldn't be above 12. I run 11.5-11.8 under full boost at 18 psi

 

[mikewashere]

and they also have a lean spot as well. Which is where things can go wrong

how lean? how rich? I'd love to test an n/a ecu out on a wide band and see what numbers .. since a/f seems to be the only true issue with the ecu

 

[mikewashere]

Shouldn't be above 12. I run 11.5-11.8 under full boost at 18 psi

ya but then again you only made 195whp on 16psi lol

 

[tweety2300]

gtx is a perfect example. can run a boosted setup on a bp on an n/a ecu and get away with it fine, no need for a gtx ecu. but on a msp its the end of the world lol

Show me one person who was dumb enough to do that , people run a bp on a gtx ecu. Multiple turbo 323 variations were made, most people do a bp26, bfmr gtx ecu, or go megasquirt

Plus the 323 was built for boost unlike the msp, bigger rods and low compression pistons

 

[Spiced MSP]

I'm not dead stuck on doing it fyi, just think its funny you guys are so sure of yourself being you have no hard evidence on something. why knock something you don't know. Buddy above already posted of someone he remembers a while back that did it and ran low 13s for a/f.

if you read the entire post, you would have noticed that it was tested on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT engine. Just because it works on one platform doesn't mean it will work on another. All cars are different, different piston designs, compression, head design and etc. That's why some cars thrive in boost with an AFR around 13:1-13:5 and others thrive with a more conservative AFR like 11:3-12:0. As I said already, IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING HARD EVIDENCE. IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE BASICS OF TUNING, YOU WOULDN'T BE ASKING THIS QUESTION

 

[Jspeed17]

Not getting into a huge debate here but i understand where mike is coming from....was he's saying is you can turbo ANY car in the world, just read a book, do some math, increase fuel pressure in boost via RRFPReg etc. etc....if you can monitor knock while in boost, i say go for it buddy--the extra timing will give more torque

i personally run a p5 ecu , but also Greddy Emanage for timing and fuel

 

[tweety2300]

ya but then again you only made 195whp on 16psi lol

It made 195 when it was awd, it has a tiny vj11 turbo and 7.9:1 pistons and is 25 year old technology, not to mention the vaccume advance distributor bs, have you ever seen the afm on them? Huge air restriction. With a t28 afm delete, coil packs, and megasquirt 300 whp is just a tune and boost bump

I'm guesstimating 200-220 as it sits on 18 psi

 

[Jspeed17]

thread jack....

tweety check this out: http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/3496436277.html

should i buy it? lol

 

[tweety2300]

if you read the entire post, you would have noticed that it was tested on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT engine. Just because it works on one platform doesn't mean it will work on another. All cars are different, different piston designs, compression, head design and etc. That's why some cars thrive in boost with an AFR around 13:1-13:5 and others thrive with a more conservative AFR like 11:3-12:0. As I said already, IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING HARD EVIDENCE. IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE BASICS OF TUNING, YOU WOULDN'T BE ASKING THIS QUESTION

It was on a protege, can't remember which motor though, probly an fs. I've always been told and read you should never be above 11.5-12 while in boost. Of course that's mostly Hondas and the fs

 

[tweety2300]

thread jack....

tweety check this out: http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/3496436277.html

should i buy it? lol

Yes but sell me the diff and cams, those are as rare as the gt sedan

 

[Spiced MSP]

Not getting into a huge debate here but i understand where mike is coming from....was he's saying is you can turbo ANY car in the world, just read a book, do some math, increase fuel pressure in boost via RRFPReg etc. etc....if you can monitor knock while in boost, i say go for it buddy--the extra timing will give more torque

i personally run a p5 ecu , but also Greddy Emanage for timing and fuel

he isn't using any sort of EMS. He also didn't mention a FPR. Also, he's not trying to increase fuel pressure, he's trying to lean the fuel mixture out some

 

[Jspeed17]

he isn't using any sort of EMS. He also didn't mention a FPR. Also, he's not trying to increase fuel pressure, he's trying to lean the fuel mixture out some

Ah... gotcha, he's thinking just plug and play. It'll run fine, just not in boost...lol

 

[mikewashere]

Not getting into a huge debate here but i understand where mike is coming from....was he's saying is you can turbo ANY car in the world, just read a book, do some math, increase fuel pressure in boost via RRFPReg etc. etc....if you can monitor knock while in boost, i say go for it buddy--the extra timing will give more torque

i personally run a p5 ecu , but also Greddy Emanage for timing and fuel

ya would most defiantly need some management after throwing in a n/a ecu, I think it would be a fun experiment .. overall though in theory its all about what your after I think, daily use, track numbers, or just overall crazy whp

It made 195 when it was awd, it has a tiny vj11 turbo and 7.9:1 pistons and is 25 year old technology, not to mention the vaccume advance distributor bs, have you ever seen the afm on them? Huge air restriction. With a t28 afm delete, coil packs, and megasquirt 300 whp is just a tune and boost bump

I'm guesstimating 200-220 as it sits on 18 psi

not going to get into a debate about your gtx setup but if you do a lil googling I remember a few guys from back in the day with gtx swapped escort gt's who ran upwards 300whp on 10psi+ awesome motors well capeable of more then the numbers you've got.

 

[Spiced MSP]

It was on a protege, can't remember which motor though, probly an fs. I've always been told and read you should never be above 11.5-12 while in boost. Of course that's mostly Hondas and the fs

it all depends on the car and how solid of a tune the person has. Granted, aggressive tunes like that are usually always on a standalone with solid correction maps if contributing factors affect anything on the base tune. Never seen it done on a piggyback due to inconsistency.

 

[mikewashere]

he isn't using any sort of EMS. He also didn't mention a FPR. Also, he's not trying to increase fuel pressure, he's trying to lean the fuel mixture out some

with boost you always need some sort of management and monitoring. that just goes without saying

 

[Spiced MSP]

Ah... gotcha, he's thinking just plug and play. It'll run fine, just not in boost...lol

THANK YOU!!!!! LOL, That is what we have been saying throughout this entire thread!!! The maps will run the car fine up to atmospheric pressure. As soon as the car sees boost, that's it. He would need something to tune with. Simply swapping ECUs isn't going to work with the MSP

 

[Spiced MSP]

with boost you always need some sort of management and monitoring. that just goes without saying

ok, you just answered your own question. You will always need some sort of management. So, instead of simply trying to swap ECUs. Why do you get "some sort of management" to get a better AFR...which is essentially what you are after anyway. I remember you saying something about the ssafc earlier in the thread. Just get one of those and lean the AFR out where needed and be done with it