My MSP project

[polaris]

Just got back from Louisiana (Baton Rouge). Damn its humid there! Kinda reminds me of home (Florida) in a bad way. I drove my wife's car (2002 Protege5) and it did well. It was first long trip we took it on since she bought it. Its definitely a fun car to drive. But not as fun as mine! So since Im back, it's time to get back on the MSP. Here's my syllabus for this round:

* replace exhaust manifold
* replace WGA and get the connecting hose to boost only
* install MBC
* do ninja flips if everything works right

I plan to take pics during the install and share them with you of course.

So KrayzieFox brought up a good point that I have also been considering. If my car has 142k miles on it, then most likely, so does the turbo. When I had all my intercooler pipes off, I checked the turbine for spin and shaft play. There wasn't any play in the shaft and the turbine spun nice and freely. So either it was babied (which I know the original wasn't) or it was replaced or rebuilt at some time. I didn't find any oil in any of my pipes so I know the seals are good for now. In the future, I may get it rebuilt myself just to start with a clean slate. I had considered the legendary disco potato, but I'm trying not to have to go forged or upgrade my internals (for now). I know I can run the T28 at a lower psi but it seems a bit excessive (cost and power) for now. So for now Im going to take my chances with what I got. The turbo isn't super hard to remove so I feel ok to leave well enough alone for now.

Another thing I should mention is my valve seals (you know what's coming...). When I start my car in the morning, I get a lil puff of smoke usually. But sometimes it doesn't. If it was an all the time thing, It could be a number of things, but the few times it doesn't puff lets me know it was most likely my valve seals. Its not bad yet, but once I get my turbo working right again, and with extra added boost (thinking of going somewhere between 7 - 9psi for now), I'm going to get blow by, and put my PCV valve to the test. I did purchase the Millenia PCV (yet to be installed), so I should be ok with a lil added boost, but too much blow by isn't good. I called my local mechanic (Yost for those in ATX) and to rebuild (which requires machining) would cost $1750. This is too much! I looked online and found a co. that sells rebuilt FS heads (they're all the same) for $350 and that includes cams. So this will be coming up not too far in the future.

Also, because I was tired of looking at my rims with the finish coming off, I bought some new rims. They should be here in a few days. I plan on painting the stock Racing Harts and putting them onto the Protege5. Hiroe (the wifey) requested I paint them gunmetal gray, which is also the color of my new ones. I really like the Volk 6 spoke, but its a lil rich for me. In my search for something similar (searching for rims is a real pain I must say), I found these...

Theyre by MB and they were pretty cheap and most likely heavy. But it'll hold me over for now. With the rims and mounting and balancing, I paid about $635. I'm using the tires that are currently on my Racing Harts, and the MB's are same size as stock (17x7). I know the offset should be 50mm - 55mm, and the new ones are 43mm. I'm guessing its 50/50 chance they'll rub a lil (only in the back prolly), but can easily be fixed with a camber kit. And worst case scenario, I got them from Discount Tire and being they said it would fit, they'll refund my $ if they don't. I'll keep you posted on how that goes.

 

[polaris]

Apparently Onlinemazdaparts is no longer in business? I haven't confirmed this but that's what scratchnsniff claims. As far as the turbo goes it's a lottery, my original turbo with 156k still boosts 12psi easy and doesn't smoke or spray oil in the piping.

Here's my question for you; are you running 12psi on stock internals? What is the highest boost I can go and not have to start replacing fuel injectors and fuel pressure regulators?

 

[hornsfan10609]

The FPR you likely never have to worry about and the injectors are more than enough for the amount of boost the stock turbo can push, I don't run 12psi but it will spike over 12 sometimes. The actual boost through the powerband is only 7-8psi. As far as the rims go they will fit fine, a friend of mine and former MSP owner works at discount up by Lakeline. He is always willing to 'hook it up'

 

[polaris]

Got my rims today. They rub a lil, but I have a buddy who has a fender rolling tool that should give me the clearance I need. Worst case scenario, I install a camber kit, but I think it'll be ok. It noticeably brings the wheels out a bit and shows a bit more "sexy triangle". Overall, I think it looks badass!

 

[hornsfan10609]

Damn 205/50! I though you were stock which would fit fine and not rub with those wheels.

 

[polaris]

Well here's the story behind that. When I went to pep boys the day after I got the car, I obviously didn't research much in the first day. I told them to just replace the ones at we're on there. Not to excuse my ignorance and/ or stupidity, but a good salesman would have checked to make sure and let me know. But anyways...the tires on there when I got it were 205/50/17. All tires are new, so spending more money on tires when I could be spending it on my engine seems unrealistic. I do, however, have a solution...

I talked to Hiroe about her current rims (2 are stock, and 2 are aftermarket. And tires will need to be replaced soon). I found some pics of a P5 with MSP rims and she liked it. So imma strip my old rims and repaint. Then I'll transfer my current tires to the old rims and purchase the right size tires for myself. So the wifey gets new rims and tires, and I get the right tires.

 

[KrayzieFox]

Just be aware that a P5 with 17" wheels and 205/50 tires will have an inaccurate speedometer, especially on the highway. Might suffer a bit on gas mileage too due to the heavier MSP wheels, but that hopefully won't be too noticeable.

 

[polaris]

Thanks KrayzieFox. I did consider the difference in the circumference of the 17's. But the difference should be less than 5mph anywhere less than 80. Although we favor the P5 over my MSP for long distances, its mostly used in town. and in Austin, theres way too much traffic to go fast anywhere inside the city. I didn't give it much thought after that, but in reality, it usually wont be me driving. I should prolly ask the wife if she's cool with it.

Thanks again KrayzieFox! You may have saved me some nights on the couch (couch)

...hell hath no fury like a Japanese woman's scorn!
やばい！！！

 

[KrayzieFox]

Yeah, it won't be a huge effect but should be something to keep in mind for highway cruising. We all like to go 5-10 over the limit on the highways but with bigger tires you're doing that already by "going the speed limit". Use this site to get an exact figure of what your new actual speeds will be, but you were right.. it's about 5 mph higher than the speedo indicates at 70-80 mph. If I remember correctly, stock P5 size is 195/50/R16.

http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-...Tire-Size-Change-Calculator.asp#axzz391TZmpmU

 

[polaris]

Its been a while since I've posted to this thread. I can say I have done a lot of work to the car, and learned many lessons on the way (some of which you guys tried to warn me about). All in all, the car runs way better than before I started the work, so although I haven't achieved the "not-rough" idle quite yet, I'm still moving forward.

So I put the car on jack stands and drained the water and the oil. I then pulled out the radiator and intercooler (it was pretty easy). I moved on to the exhaust manifold. When I pulled off the heat shield, I could see that the crack had gotten worse since the last time I looked at it.

 

[polaris]

I used a penetrating spray on the manifold bolts and they came off without any problems. I took the bolts out where the s pipe and j pipe connect. One of the bolts got stuck and I ended up pulling out the stud on one of them (this will be a problem later). Unhooked oil and water lines from the turbo and everything came out with minimal issues.

The exhaust ports didn't look overly black so that's a good sign. I took off the oem WGA and installed the new Turbosmart.

Everything was going smooth so far. I noticed on the oem manifold, there were studs that the turbo bolted on to. On the new mani, it just had holes. I went and got some through-bolts and went to bolt together. On the hole closest to the EGR part of the mani, I didn't have enough clearance to get the bolt in the hole. So I carefully drilled out the hole a bit, and removed and burrs on the surface, and the bolt went in fine.

 

[hornsfan10609]

Nice work man, makes me want to get my car finished

 

[polaris]

Nice work man, makes me want to get my car finished

Thanks! I still have a long way to go but I'm definitely having fun. I went out to Cobb 1st Thurs. My car was down for a few days so I didn't bring it. To my surprise a titanium silver MSP pulled in.. it was Travis. We got to talk shop for a bit and I ended up taking a little tour of Cobb. Definitely a big boy toy store in there. I got my car running again before Sunday and was able to make it to Cars and Coffee. I was hoping to run into another MSP owner, but no luck on that round. I did get to meet some friends there. One of those friends has a really nice RX7. I took pics...

 

[hornsfan10609]

I've seen that car around. Travis told me he ran into you, I will make it up to Cobb next month. Don't hold your breath trying to find other MSPs, other than Abel, Travis, you and I there aren't many left that are owned by enthusiasts. I have even gotten strange looks when waving at people in other MSPs lol

 

[polaris]

I bought my MSP at a place called Pana Motors on Ben White and 1st area. They also had another titanium silver MSP there. It was in better condition than mine and they wanted $9500 for it. I stopped by there the other day to inquire about my plates, and I saw it was gone. Guy said he sold it recently. And about 4 days before the Cobb meet, I was on N Lamar by Rundberg and I saw another titanium MSP drive by. I knew your car was down so I considered Travis as a possibility. But when I met Travis I saw it wasn't him either. I remember the MSP at Pana was missing the lower grill (big center) and I'm pretty sure the one I saw driving was too. So there may be a new addition to the ATX MSP family. I also saw that JD Motors had a yellow MSP for sale about a month back. It could have been bought locally. Austin's pretty small, Im sure we'll be seeing these guys around...

 

[polaris]

After I bolted the turbo up snug to the new mani (the mani came with a gasket for the head and one for the turbo). I set the s pipe onto the j pipe (I used the old gasket) and then got the mani set against the block. I replaced some of the old studs that hold the mani on with some new ones. I also added some studs where there were bolts before (new mani had different bolts that were hard to get to, so I supplemented studs). I tightened everything down in order and to right torque specs using a thread on this forum as a guide. Now back to the j pipe. Not only did I try to reuse the old gasket, but when I unbolted the s pipe in the beginning, one of the nuts got stuck on the stud, and I pulled the stud out of the s pipe. Here's a pic that shows it and the old gasket...

Like a dumbass, I just bolted the stud back into the s pipe instead of getting a new stud and nut for it (which is like ~$8 at he Mazda dealer). The fit from j pipe to s pipe was tight (due to new mani and its little differences in turbo placement, etc.) so I loosened the bracket a lil and then tightened back in new position. I put everything back in (radiator, turbo pipes, etc) and filled her with new fluids. I cranked her up and it started right away and purred pretty nicely. I let it warm up and went for a spin. The idle was now much smoother, and it sounded better without the exhaust leak. I opened up the throttle and the turbo spooled quickly and smoothly. The WGA worked flawlessly with no boost spike. Although I tried to set it back to lowest position, it boosted to about 7.5psi.

I was very happy about this! I parked my car (I work on my car at the restaurant I work at) and ran in to tell Chef (he's Japanese and also into cars, especially Japanese cars, so naturally this is the first person I always run to when it concerns my car) and took him for a ride to gloat over my success. It started up just fine, but as it was idling, I noticed a new noise coming from the front of the car. It was like a whistling sound, but it was modulating. Funny enough, it almost sounded like a turkey (which, ironically enough, so does my BOV). And the rough idle was back. Once driving, it was a lil better, but the whistling turkey was getting more profound. It was a long day, so I just went home and figured I'd deal with tomorrow.

 

[polaris]

Next day I got in the car and headed to work. On the way, I hit a straightaway and floored it. The whistling (it had almost become a flutey sound now) was still there. I boosted for a few secs and then the hp dropped suddenly. I live close to work so I just chugged my way around the corner to the restaurant and parked it. I felt pretty defeated at this time. At first thought, I had no idea what it could be. after thinking about it more, I remembered what paniaguae640 said about not reusing gaskets and to "do it right once", and it dawned on me! I didn't replace j pipe gasket and didn't replace the stud on the s pipe. So I began to try and find a gasket for this. After a few dead ends online, I ended up at the Mazda dealer and found the gasket for around $7. Since I wasn't planning on taking off the whole exhaust mani again, I figured Id take the j pipe off from the cat. So I also got a compression ring in case the old was too mangled.

When trying to remove the j pipe from the cat, I was having probs breaking the nut loose from the bolts on the cat (the one with the springs) I figured I needed an impact wrench to do right, and I didn't have one available. So I just pulled the j pipe down off the s pipe without unbolting from the cat. It was tight, but I got the gasket and the new stud on there and made extra sure I torqued to proper specs. I then went to reconnect my battery (I disconnect every time to reset my ecu) and noticed that the cold pipe had blown off the TB. This would account for the sudden drop in HP I described earlier. I reconnected the pipe, and started her up. She ran great. Still a bit of a rough idle, but way better than it had ever run before.

I have a vacuum block and enough silicone vacuum hoses to redo all my vac lines. I figure this will not only look much better, but should get me closer to a smooth idle. Also one thing I noticed with the new mani is it gets really hot in the engine bay now. But without a heat shield, and the fact that its stainless steel, it makes sense there is more heat than before. I ordered some header wrap and ss ties, but continued to drive with the extra heat. That added to the over 100F Texas summer days was the perfect formula for my next problem that has recently arisen; my radiator...

 

[polaris]

A few weeks went by and although my bay would get heat soaked a lot, it ran without too many issues. Until last Saturday (8/23) I was on I35 headed south when I noticed my car was starting to lose its "pep". I looked at the temp gauge and it was definitely overheating. I immediately got off the interstate and pulled into first gas station I could find. I opened the hood and immediately saw the problem. There was a big split in the top of the radiator. My guess is that the extra heat, along with the fact that the original radiator was 11 years old, finally caused the radiator to fail. So I start calling around to Auto Zone and Oreilly to see if I can get a replacement on the fly. Well just like most everything else on an MSP, you cant find a lot of parts at a regular parts place. I called the dealership and they said they could have one there in 2 days. but it was about $450. I got a ride home and began to research what options I had. Basically, if I keep the stock intercooler placement, my only choices are OEM or one made by Ron Davis for around $500. But if I switch to FMIC, I can get a decent aluminum radiator for half the price. But it would require install time for all new hard pipes and intercooler. I was tempted to switch, but I found an OEM radiator through Street Unit for $340. I figure with the header wrap, it should be ok for another 10 years like the original. The radiator will be here Tuesday (9/2) and should be a snap to install.

 

[KrayzieFox]

You may have also punctured the radiator when doing the manifold replacement, it happens quite often.. I recommend draining and removing the radiator when doing what kind of work.

And it sucks that you learned the hard way, but you really shouldn't reusing gaskets and exhaust studs, those parts see such ridiculous heat over the years and it makes no sense to reuse them. Not just exhaust, but any gasket, just replace it and have peace of mind.

 

[hornsfan10609]

I bought my MSP at a place called Pana Motors on Ben White and 1st area. They also had another titanium silver MSP there. It was in better condition than mine and they wanted $9500 for it. I stopped by there the other day to inquire about my plates, and I saw it was gone. Guy said he sold it recently. And about 4 days before the Cobb meet, I was on N Lamar by Rundberg and I saw another titanium MSP drive by. I knew your car was down so I considered Travis as a possibility. But when I met Travis I saw it wasn't him either. I remember the MSP at Pana was missing the lower grill (big center) and I'm pretty sure the one I saw driving was too. So there may be a new addition to the ATX MSP family. I also saw that JD Motors had a yellow MSP for sale about a month back. It could have been bought locally. Austin's pretty small, Im sure we'll be seeing these guys around...

There were two MSPs at the Pana place? The other one had a hideous body kit right? The guy who used to own that lived down south and I used to see it occasionally, they want way too much for it, and JD motors always has an MSP or two, the yellow one had a bad turbo and they have a titanium now that I believe is the same car they had for sale last year. Travis wouldn't be up on Rundberg, we live down in Oak Hill but it may have been Abel.