MSP water-air intercooler project

[Valk]

for comparison sake, you might pick up a smaller core or tranny cooler to do a direct comparison. something you can turn around and sell later.

definitly going to wanna look at upgrading your pump soon. I really like iwaki pumps, but tey are all 120vac. larger pc watercooling pumps are 12dvc , which is why i wanna try the liang i have.

well im thinking the size of your core doesn't matter anyway. turbo doesn't make enough heat that you need really big rads to cool. just keep a really good flow rate of water and a small rad can take a lot.
case in point, all the water/air mr2's i've seen use tranny coolers lol.

 

[dmention7]

Well, a quick update. I picked up a 7.5" slim Spal puller fan. At 2.05" thin, it was still a VERY tight fit behind the radiator, but with a few minor modifications to the inside of the bumper and the lower grille I got it to fit perfectly. The thing sounds like I've got a vacuum cleaner running under the hood, and it moves quite a bit of air! So I think I'm about as immune to heatsoak as I'm going to get without running an icewater tank. Though, the noise and extra electrical draw has me plotting either a separate interior switch or even a fan controller of some type.

Also, this weekend, the local mazda club hit up the backroads of southwest wisconsin to carve up some twisties. I ran my car pretty damn hard for up to 20 minutes at a time--with little to no noticeable heatsoak--and I'm constantly amazed at just how much harder it pulls. It's possible my stock SMIC was just completely horked inside, but the difference is absolutely night and day once I get past 3500rpms.


Anywho.... still hoping to get some temperature datalogging, but haven't convinced myself to drop the money on the necessary equipment.

 

[dmention7]

A member requested a parts list for my setup, so I figured I'd post it here in case it helps out anyone else.... So here's a list of what I bought, and when I can remember, where I bought it from. Bear in mind, I have my battery relocated to my trunk and I'm running a BPV and intake with 1" ports, so I'm not going to make any promises of fitment or anything... just that this is a list of what I needed to get up and running.

www.frozenboost.com
- Water to Air Intercooler DIY Kit 600 HP (WAT001006) Options: Installation Kit, Type 8 IC core, Rule 401FC pump, Type 118 heat exchanger, no reservoir or filler cap
- 2.5" silicone 90 degree elbow (SIL000033) x2
- 2.5"-2.25" silicone reducer (SIL000053) x1
- 2.5" silicone coupler (SIL000615) x1
- 2.5" BOV T-pipe with 1" port (SSB000458) x1
- 2.25" T-bolt clamp (CLA000101) x1
- 2.5" T-bolt clamp (CLA000102) x 8

www.velocityair.com
- 2.5" 90 degree aluminum elbow

www.absoluteradiator.com
- 7.5" SPAL slim puller fan (# 30100358)

For the filler port for the water system, I just browsed home depot's plumbing section until I found a tee with 3/4" hose barbs on two of the ports, and a threaded port, along with a matching threaded cap.

As to electrical accessories, I had a battery harness left unused from my HID kit... it was perfect because it was a fused harness with a relay and two power/ground leads (one for the pump, one for the fan). The switch was just a cheap rocker switch from pep boys. www.therpmstore.com carries a battery harness like the one I used (# APEXWH)

Finally, for the BPV hose, I just went to the auto parts store, and asked for a 1 1/4" ID radiator hose that had several bends in it... no idea what it came from, but there were 2 90 degree bends and 2 smaller angle bends... just cut out what I needed and saved the rest.

Beyond that, the rest was just nuts/bolts and other misc hardware that I had laying around the garage.

Any other specific Q's, feel free to ask.

 

[pavone]

why does it seem that this route is cheaper than a full fledged fmic setup? also why did you choose to go with the type of core instead of the straight through? i really want to do this but it seems to simple and as i know... anything that seems simple definately isnt.

 

[Valk]

It works simply because air is not very efficient at moving heat away from what needs to be cooled. the water has a higher capacitance for heat, and is efficient because you can rapidly move it elsewhere and get rid of it with as big a radiator core as you like.

fmic's are efficiant in their placement too, but you need to make room for a lot of extra piping. this does the same job with less piping, and works when the car is stationary. good for drag racing, slow speed racing ect.
you can also run sub ambient temps with an ice box if you like.

 

[dmention7]

First off, I went with a relatively inexpensive core. A higher-end core which would probably provide more efficient heat transfer characteristics would likely run ~$500, which is around what I paid for my whole setup, but would still end up being comparably priced with a high-end FMIC kit. Generally, a FMIC kit is going to be more expensive, as Valk mentioned, because there is a lot more piping involved, which tends to not be cheap after all the custom bending and welding.

I went with the core I did primarily to simplify the charge pipe routing and placement of the core. I spent a fair amount of time mocking things up, and I found my solution to be the one I preferred the most, and could most easily put together without custom bending/welding.

 

[dmention7]

So just a quick update.... my pump failed sometime in the last few days, turning my IC core into a literal interwarmer. lol

Time to start shopping for that bosch pump out of the cobra stangs.

 

[Valk]

Just order one from silicon intakes.

Also. Are your barbs 1/2 or 3/4 id? Could try the liang d5. Its a 12vdc 300gph thermal pump used inany computer cooling systems. 300gph at 15ft and 50000mtbf

im gonna run mine for this purpose.

 

[dmention7]

Yeah, siliconeintakes/frozenboost is probably the easiest place. I checked ebay, and they are not available for any cheaper there.

I would personally be a little suspect of how a pump designed for the clean, stable environment of a high-end PC would fare mounted behind the bumper or in the engine bay of a car. Then again, the pump I was using till now was designed for bilge pump / livewell use.... haha

 

[emespea]

Yeah, siliconeintakes/frozenboost is probably the easiest place. I checked ebay, and they are not available for any cheaper there.

I would personally be a little suspect of how a pump designed for the clean, stable environment of a high-end PC would fare mounted behind the bumper or in the engine bay of a car. Then again, the pump I was using till now was designed for bilge pump / livewell use.... haha

the bosch cobra pump works great. I know someone that uses it on his MSP and hes had it for a few years. the first one failed on him cause he didnt have it in the right spot and sicne they arent self priming its VERY important water is constantly sitting on te inlet or itll burn up.

 

[Valk]

Liang makes pumps for jet hot tubs whuch run 24/7. The d5 is for chemical transport and cooling applications. No bearings to burn. As long as it gets clean power it could run forever.

Curious what your water temps are

 

[dmention7]

Ah, I just assumed based on all the hits I got on google. Maybe I was also thinking of the case manufacturer Lian Li.

And you know, I never got around to buying a temp gauge or anything. The best I can do is tell you that I've popped my hood on a 90 degree day, and the IC core was cool to the touch, even just being a few inches from the block. Granted, this was after a minute or two of 30mph driving.

 

[Valk]

i wouldn't expect your water temps to be much higher than 50c under a pull. this water isn't exposed to fire heh.
with a high flowrate and decent size radiator its super efficient.

where did you put your res in the loop? ill probably run res, pump, rad, intercooler but wanted to use the washer bottle as a res which is a lot more tubing than i wanted considering the pressure drop of the rad. maybe a second res pump post radiator.

 

[dmention7]

I am not running a reservoir right now. That's another thing on my mile-long to-do list... but I would run it more as an expansion tank, with a small diameter hose tapped into the outlet side of the IC core (since that's the high point in the system) and run to a small reservoir. I don't have any plans to run an icebox or anything, so this would be purely for the purposes of catching air in the system and allowing some expansion to prevent leaks.

 

[Jondar]

why does it seem that this route is cheaper than a full fledged fmic setup? also why did you choose to go with the type of core instead of the straight through? i really want to do this but it seems to simple and as i know... anything that seems simple definately isnt.

you also have to remember he made up this kit himself( i realise he bought a kit but it didnt have everything), when if u buy a predone kit with everything you need from a brand name then you will always pay more, you can make FMIC kits hella cheap if u can get someone to cut u a deal on welding. but it all comes down to quality as well.

 

[emespea]

I am not running a reservoir right now. That's another thing on my mile-long to-do list... but I would run it more as an expansion tank, with a small diameter hose tapped into the outlet side of the IC core (since that's the high point in the system) and run to a small reservoir. I don't have any plans to run an icebox or anything, so this would be purely for the purposes of catching air in the system and allowing some expansion to prevent leaks.

you can put ice in the resevoir tank, thats what my friend does and its very effective.

 

[HKPRO5]

Everything looks good! I have been looking to do this type of set up for a while. It unique and effective!

What kind of water are you running? Are you using water wetter or something similar?

I'm thinking of doing something like this when I turn up the boost on the supercharger. (due to the heavy heat levels when turning up the boost)

 

[dmention7]

you can put ice in the resevoir tank, thats what my friend does and its very effective.

If I ran the 1/4 frequently I would consider an ice box, but my car is strictly a DD so the extra weight and plumbing wouldn't really gain anything.

Everything looks good! I have been looking to do this type of set up for a while. It unique and effective!

What kind of water are you running? Are you using water wetter or something similar?

I'm thinking of doing something like this when I turn up the boost on the supercharger. (due to the heavy heat levels when turning up the boost)

I have been running 50/50 premixed antifreeze with redline water wetter. I'm aware that running pure distilled water is better from a heat capacity standpoint, but it hasn't been an issue to the point where I want to drain and refill the system every spring and fall. If I get the motor built and start running higher boost, I'll probably do that though.

 

[emespea]

If I ran the 1/4 frequently I would consider an ice box, but my car is strictly a DD so the extra weight and plumbing wouldn't really gain anything.

I agree, i meant put ice in your resevoir tank when/if you decide to add one.

 

[Valk]

honestly, you should have a res anyway. a cheap walmart container with npt fittings epoxy'd on would work just fine.
you want your pump inlet to be unrestricted and its best to gravity feed it straight from the res.

you put a drain port on your res so after the ice melts, you can drain the excess water. you need somewhere for the air bubbles to go too, since air-bubbles neuter your pump's efficiency.

idealy, you would add a series of valves so your pump can bypass your heat exchanger which are just ball valves. pretty cheap and simple to install.