MSP Turkey: FACTS

505zoom · Nov 20, 2003

Little Beavis said:
So, you are now running the aftermarket BOV with it vented and a dedicated vacuum line?

Actually, I am now running the stock valve recirculating, in addition to the open vent HKS.

Little Beavis said:
There is really no difference between what I have and what you have, except I don't have the damn turkey!

Neither do I, anymore

Zray · Nov 20, 2003

Awesome! I looove that sound...

So how did you hook up the HKS? And would all of this probably still work on an all-stock situation? I'm planning on a CAI and an MBC in my near future, so hopefully nothing else is required except for the extra BOV.

CustomMSP · Nov 20, 2003

MAD props to everybody who's been putting time and effort in this issue!

jersey_emt · Nov 20, 2003

The stock BPV running open vent (with the Injen return 'U' capped) on the stock IC pipes did nothing...still a flock of turkeys. BUT with a slightly audible 'whoosh' along with it. A step in the right direction, but not nearly enough.

I guess anyone who wants to get rid of the compressor surge has to get hardpipes and use two BPV's/BOV's.

At least we now know what we have to do! Of course, I still don't understand why so much is needed to properly vent the low stock boost.

boostisgood · Nov 20, 2003

Im not gonna read through the 9 pages of stuff here, but just gonna delve into this thread.

First, look where the stock BPV is located. ITs on the charge pipe, from the turbo to the IC. This is not the optimal placement for an aftermarket BOV, regardless if your going to recirculate or not. You will want a BOV located no closer then 5 inches to the TB and no more then 12 inches from the TB. This gives the pressurized air enough pipe/ic to travel through, before its vented, and create less back pressure.

With the current location, the TB closes, and pushes about 6 feet of piping, with pressurized air back to the BPV, and you have the charge air from the turbo going foward, the BPV, and an aftermarket cannot release the pressure from both directions. Thus, the air from the turbo is forced back, and will create the turkey/compressure surge, that the BPV/BOV is in place to stop.

It is an engineering oversight on MAzda.......again. It works fine in sotck form, but adding an aftermarket intake or BOV, worsens the situation it seems.

MY suggestion, get hardpipes with the BOV on the TB piping or go with a full fmic, that does the same.

supman · Nov 20, 2003

so 505zoom, i'm stock right now except for a short ram intake, what do i have to buy to stop the turkey? aftermarket bov, hardpipes and.... ?

SoniCraze · Nov 20, 2003

You would have to eather put a flange on the plastic pipe comming from your TB then run a bov on it, or just get hardpipes and put one on there....

jersey_emt · Nov 20, 2003

boostisgood said:
Im not gonna read through the 9 pages of stuff here, but just gonna delve into this thread.

First, look where the stock BPV is located. ITs on the charge pipe, from the turbo to the IC. This is not the optimal placement for an aftermarket BOV, regardless if your going to recirculate or not. You will want a BOV located no closer then 5 inches to the TB and no more then 12 inches from the TB. This gives the pressurized air enough pipe/ic to travel through, before its vented, and create less back pressure.

With the current location, the TB closes, and pushes about 6 feet of piping, with pressurized air back to the BPV, and you have the charge air from the turbo going foward, the BPV, and an aftermarket cannot release the pressure from both directions. Thus, the air from the turbo is forced back, and will create the turkey/compressure surge, that the BPV/BOV is in place to stop.

It is an engineering oversight on MAzda.......again. It works fine in sotck form, but adding an aftermarket intake or BOV, worsens the situation it seems.

MY suggestion, get hardpipes with the BOV on the TB piping or go with a full fmic, that does the same.

Yeah, I know 'WHY' it happens (technically speaking) but I was really asking why we HAVE to do all of this to fix a problem that shouldn't of been there in the first place

boostisgood · Nov 20, 2003

Jersey, cause mazda dropped the ball on another area of the MSP.

Again, we all need to remember, car makers dont make the cars to be modded. They are not concerened that we get compresser surge if we mess withthe stock setup.

jersey_emt · Nov 20, 2003

Yeah, but there's bad compressor surge even in the stock setup.

servoeyes · Nov 20, 2003

boostisgood said:
Jersey, cause mazda dropped the ball on another area of the MSP. Again, we all need to remember, car makers dont make the cars to be modded. They are not concerened that we get compresser surge if we mess withthe stock setup.

Hey BiG...

What about 505's setup? He has the HKS on the other pipe, closer to the TB and was still getting the Turkey. Now he runs TWO pop-offs and gets rid of the turkey...that's pretty weird, isn't it?

boostisgood · Nov 20, 2003

That is a basic reason, in most cars. Alot of it has to do with the piping setup also. The plastic expands, even before the car hits boost. So when you let off the throttle, the compressor is spinning, but no making boost, the pipes are not being fed the air, so they contract, thus compresser surge.

Thats why I said its hardpipes with BOV or full FMIC with BOV.

Emode · Nov 20, 2003

but he has hard pipes

boostisgood · Nov 20, 2003

Soah, guess I shoulda read the whol thread. That is wierd. IF he is getting compressure surge, did he verify that the BOV's were adjusted correctly? That is about the only thing I could think of. unless its just the sound of a GT serise of turbos, coming out of boost.

Ill contact Garrett tomorrow, and speak with my contact there to find out.

Emode · Nov 20, 2003

word boost

servoeyes · Nov 20, 2003

Sweet...thanks, C. He tried both ends of the spectrum with the HKS on the hard pipes, as shown in his pics on one of these last couple pages. Still had turkey, until he put back the stock BPV to compliment the HKS.

Dexter · Nov 20, 2003

boostisgood said:
Soah, guess I shoulda read the whol thread. That is wierd. IF he is getting compressure surge, did he verify that the BOV's were adjusted correctly? That is about the only thing I could think of. unless its just the sound of a GT serise of turbos, coming out of boost.

Ill contact Garrett tomorrow, and speak with my contact there to find out.

we came to the conclusion that there was not enough vac. to make the BOV/BPV work properly. 505 hooked up a clean vac line to the HKS and installed the stock BPV as well. and in his audio clip i cant hear a damns worth of a turkey (thumb)

must get fmic and BOV

boostisgood · Nov 20, 2003

Hrrrm, I am installing my Greddy this weekend.(as long as Spool sends me a flange.

) I will try to tap a vac line directly from the head, to the BOV. I had my questions about so many (more then 1) things running off that same line.

505zoom · Nov 20, 2003

Zray said:
Awesome! I looove that sound... So how did you hook up the HKS? And would all of this probably still work on an all-stock situation? I'm planning on a CAI and an MBC in my near future, so hopefully nothing else is required except for the extra BOV.

The HKS is running through a weld-on flange, and open-vent. If you can find a way to mount an HKS on the plastic pipe, then all you would need is the valve and whatever you come up with for mounting it on that setup.

CustomMSP said:
MAD props to everybody who's been putting time and effort in this issue!

(werd)

supman said:
so 505zoom, i'm stock right now except for a short ram intake, what do i have to buy to stop the turkey? aftermarket bov, hardpipes and.... ?

that's it.

boostisgood said:
Soah, guess I shoulda read the whol thread. That is wierd. IF he is getting compressure surge, did he verify that the BOV's were adjusted correctly? That is about the only thing I could think of. unless its just the sound of a GT serise of turbos, coming out of boost.

Ill contact Garrett tomorrow, and speak with my contact there to find out.

Yeah check out the sound clips in this thread, I have one of the HKS running on hardpipes, recirculating, and it has massive surge. I then ran it open vent with a new vacuum line in the second vid, and that sounded a little better. Now with the HKS open-vent, and the stock BPV recirculating, it does not stall or surge.

Here they are:

HKS recircualting, no stock valve:
http://www.wpi.edu/~jck15243/MOV00495.MPG

HKS open vent with own source, and no stock valve:
http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/505zoom/mov00516.mpg

HKS open vent with stock valve recirculating:
http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/505zoom/mov00533.mpg

Dexter said:
and in his audio clip i cant hear a damns worth of a turkey (thumb)

SWEET huh???

boostisgood said:
Hrrrm, I am installing my Greddy this weekend.(as long as Spool sends me a flange. ) I will try to tap a vac line directly from the head, to the BOV. I had my questions about so many (more then 1) things running off that same line.

Yeah definitely give it a clean source, and if your still getting surge, run the stocker in addition to your greddy and let me know what happens.

OrangeAppeal · Nov 21, 2003

Posted by 505 in thread in MSP section

I can feel that it runs richer after shifting on a hard run, it feels very similar to pre-flash, a little slugish at first, followed by a few pulses.
...
It is still blowing off measured air. Having the stocker in there helps, but there is no way around that. It really isn't that bad though, just barely noticeable to me, and I'm a freak about this sort of stuff

Wow, this is great info...

With all this testing you have done, have you tried to recirc both BOV/BPVs?

Maybe this would help with the sluggishness you speak of, with the metered air venting to atmosphere.

And if that is the case, maybe 2 stock BPVs in parallel would work (you know, for us broke-ass-poor people).

Any reason this wouldn't work???

MSP Turkey: FACTS

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