MSP Transmission swap?

[Notorious]

This I did not know. I did hear of some cars having gears actually crack because of freezing but I always though this was because of the actual process and sudden temperature change. Peening though is a bit more proven. I doesn't help a whole lot but it may hold a little bit whp.

Hmmm... there's a lot of conflicting information out there on whether or not this actually helps. For every instance where you can find someone who says it'll help, you can find one that says it won't.

We've looked into making gear sets in heavy machinery tougher at work, and we're finding a lot of engineering information that indicates that cryo-freezing most conventional alloys can actually make them appear tougher, but extended run hours on them indicate that the cryo treatment leads to alloy embrittlement, which actually can lead to premature failure.

The metals and applications for these are not unlike an automobile transmission - only bigger.

Just food for thought.

 

[Notorious]

If you could get the standalone to recognize shift points and be able to shift it would be possible. In this case it would probably be better to have a piggyback and let the stock ecu handle the shift points.

here's something to think about

if you went with a standalone, you think you could swap an auto tranny from a p5 or mp3 in the MSP? haha. dunno why you would want to, but hey.

sorry for the random retarded comment (boom07)

 

[Titanium]

Here's some good info for you:



All g-series are created equal. Here is a quick list of cars the G-series comes in (and that this diff will work with):
87 Mazda 323 GT
90-94 Protege LX
91-94 Mercury Capri XR2
91-96 Escort GT, LX-E & Mercury Tracer
92-94 MX-3 GS (pos 1.8 v6)
93-97 MX-6 (both 4 and 6 cyl)
93-97 626 (both 4 & 6 cyl)
93-97 Probe (both 4 & 6 cyl)
95-98 Protege ES (1.8 dohc)
97-99 Kia Sephia (1.8 dohc)
97-present Ford Escort & ZX2's (i'm not sure of this but ppl tell me they use G-series too)
98-01 626 4 cyl (not sure about 6, i forgot if its a k-series)
01-03 Protege w/FS motor (2.0LX, ES, MP3, Protege5, MSP, and in 02' all DX and LX's got the 2.0 standard)

Basically any car with a 1.8 BP, 2.0 FS, or any K-series V6 has a G-series transmission, even the Miata. Theoretically you could swap the 6-speed Miata tranny guts into a FWD transmission (if it'll fit in the bellhousing).

 

[spacemonkey]

Wow, shoudnt flame cuz this question has never been asked before. Its not another BOV, Turkey or etc thread. And atleast he tried a search on the board.

Anyways...yes I have to agree a 6speed would be a waste for performance sake but maybe a bit more confortable on the highway. SVT focus tranny swap must be done some day since ford cant sell the damn thing so I hope parts will be cheap. But just strengthening a stock MSP tranny or getting it off another similar "car" would be nice. Theres alot of options for strengthening the gears or rebuilding it...like cyrogen.

 

[Rainman]

Titanium rocks!

Thanks for the great info Titanium. I'll have to do some more research on the topic. I like the idea of better highway cruising, but I don't want to sacrifice low-end performance and I don't want to make the transmission more fragile.

Rainman

Here's some good info for you:



All g-series are created equal. Here is a quick list of cars the G-series comes in (and that this diff will work with):
87 Mazda 323 GT
90-94 Protege LX
91-94 Mercury Capri XR2
91-96 Escort GT, LX-E & Mercury Tracer
92-94 MX-3 GS (pos 1.8 v6)
93-97 MX-6 (both 4 and 6 cyl)
93-97 626 (both 4 & 6 cyl)
93-97 Probe (both 4 & 6 cyl)
95-98 Protege ES (1.8 dohc)
97-99 Kia Sephia (1.8 dohc)
97-present Ford Escort & ZX2's (i'm not sure of this but ppl tell me they use G-series too)
98-01 626 4 cyl (not sure about 6, i forgot if its a k-series)
01-03 Protege w/FS motor (2.0LX, ES, MP3, Protege5, MSP, and in 02' all DX and LX's got the 2.0 standard)

Basically any car with a 1.8 BP, 2.0 FS, or any K-series V6 has a G-series transmission, even the Miata. Theoretically you could swap the 6-speed Miata tranny guts into a FWD transmission (if it'll fit in the bellhousing).

 

[HondaEat-R]

Can anyone confirm this list of trannies being compatible w/ ours ? I may need a new tranny, and would like to know all of my options. My diff has to be able to bolt up, as well as MSP axles. Thanks guys...

 

[Titanium]

Can anyone confirm this list of trannies being compatible w/ ours ? I may need a new tranny, and would like to know all of my options. My diff has to be able to bolt up, as well as MSP axles. Thanks guys...

The list above is for the internals only. If you need a swap, you need to look for a mx-6/626 2.0L, Ford Probe 2.0L, and protege 2.0L cars for a housing that will work. The next thing to do would be research and see if there is any gear ratio differences between each model. I know in the case of 2.5L MX-6 and 2.5L 626 the gear ratio's are different. This made the same in the 2.0L. I'm pretty sure that the ratio's are the same in the protege and msp but there is a chance there is a difference in ratio's in the probe/mx-6 and 626.

 

[HondaEat-R]

Alright, thanks very much for the info.

 

[HondaEat-R]

So, just to be OCD one more time. The following trannys will bolt right up to a MSP, as well as accept the MSP LSD w/out issues ? Thanks again, alot.

# 1993-2002 Mazda 626
# 1993-1997 Mazda MX-6
# 2001-2003 Mazda Proteg
# 2003 Mazdaspeed Proteg
# 1993-1997 Ford Probe

 

[Titanium]

So, just to be OCD one more time. The following trannys will bolt right up to a MSP, as well as accept the MSP LSD w/out issues ? Thanks again, alot.

# 1993-2002 Mazda 626
# 1993-1997 Mazda MX-6
# 2001-2003 Mazda Proteg
# 2003 Mazdaspeed Proteg
# 1993-1997 Ford Probe

That is a good list.

 

[43975]

Anyone can just go out and buy a car. That is easy and un-original. But not everyone can Frankenstein up a kickass ride ala McGuyver can they. That is the whole point of tuning.

As I get closer to the end of my training and the possibility of making serious coin, I think more and more that it would be more satisfying to build a car that is a sleeping giant-killer (out of a car that was not intended to be that) rather than paying 3 or 4 times the money to buy something that is a monster out of the box.
Rainman

I totally agree which is why I'm building a Suzuki samurai street sleeper.
as far as staying at a more comfy speed while cruising the expressway...What about other mods like different turbo's, cams,exhaust ect plus some gearing changes in the stock tranny. I'm sure the right combo could net you the cruising speed your looking for.

 

[ianfromma]

dude youve gotta be retarded, you clearly havent put any thought into this nor do you have any knowledge about cars in general. its impossible to put a FR tranny into a FF vehicle

just turn it sideways (2thumbs)

 

[MrDiggler]

I still want a little taller final drive. I think it's the perfect solution. If my 170 whp overpowers all of first and half of second, I hate to think what's going to happen when the new motor goes in and I add 70-100 more whp.

 

[blaineog]

The 6 speed gearbox to use would be the Mazda6 sport 2.0 or 2.3 Euro or JDM box. Not a direct bolt up, but it should work.
If a taller geared, 6speed gearbox, strong enough to take over 300whp reliably, is what is needed. Then the only real option is the MS3 box.
Please let me know if your able to source any as I am currently on the hunt.

 

[spicyprotevo]

So as far as using the SVT Focus transmission, I think it will work. I read an article from sportcompactcar (http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0202scc_2002_svt_ford_focus/index.html) that had info about the transmission, and its the exact same size as the regular ZX3 transmission, because of the twin-layshaft design. So as long as the regular ZX3 transmission should work, then this should as well. The question is, is the ZX3 trans the same bellhousing size and such as ours? I thought I saw somewhere that it was the same as ours (which is the MTX75, right?). The problem with this transmission is that it's dual mass flywheel doesn't like quick shifting. Anyways, just another idea on how to get our cars a little nicer on the freeway and at higher speeds, which this transmission would do wonders for. I would really LOVE to see someone do this on their car, or even find people who may have taken the standard ZX3 and swapped in the SVT 6spd. Thanks for your ideas, and information.

 

[dstmsp03]

good info there.. but a big thing would be axles.. how would the axles run, how much different in size would they be? i think it would be a sweet swap.. i loved my 6 spd in my tibby!

 

[spicyprotevo]

Well if you were gonna go this route, finding the transmission, making sure everything will fit and work properly, and getting all/any custom parts that you may need, I think that the axles would be a lower priority. You might be able to just use the focus ones, idk. But shortened or custom axles aren't incredibly expensive are they? Plus, if it did have the same axles, only beefier, as the regular ZX3, and if the ZX3 has the same MTX75 or whatever as we do, then wouldn't that give us a wide range of axle options? Like from a 626, MX-6, Probe, etc? Just a thought.

Confirmed: The Focus has the same transmission as we do, the MTX75, so this swap should definitely fit.

 

[dstmsp03]

pondering.. does the svt focus have a good LSD?

 

[spicyprotevo]

The SVT Focus does not even come with any LSD stock, however, Ford Racing makes one for cheap (ish). I guess that they thought with the higher gearing, and maybe lack of torque? that it'd be alright without one. I'm getting mixed results on how tough these transmissions are though. Some people say that they are really weak (which may be because of wheel hop: lack of LSD) and others are running Jackson Racing superchargers and turbos without anything except maybe a clutch. No matter what, I do plan on doing this to one of my cars in the future. Whether it be my MSP once its paid off, or a 97 Probe GT with a built KL. Ooh either sounds pretty damn fun!

 

[HondaEat-R]

Yea so...I broke a tooth off my PAR straight cut crown gear. I'm still on the stock turbo, 15psi, and NEVER launch my car. PAR should not be considered "bullet proof". Just a heads up to people.