MSP Transmission swap?
- Thread starter Rainman
- Start date
The guy is asking a question. No need to insult him, or say "do a search". Maybe you should try explaining it, although more than likely you are incapable of explaining why it won't work. Even if you did know, someone had to explain it to you.
Looks like you have some delusions of being an automotive genius and someone should smack you back into reality.
Looks like you have some delusions of being an automotive genius and someone should smack you back into reality.
DZnutz said:
SpoolinMsp
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed
To get back to the topic, before someone else thats ignorant chimes in.
Would it even be worth it to switch to a 6speed rather than a 5. Yes your gonna have shorter gears but you would kkind of need a little more power. The msp would be kind of crazy from a roll! hehe
Would it even be worth it to switch to a 6speed rather than a 5. Yes your gonna have shorter gears but you would kkind of need a little more power. The msp would be kind of crazy from a roll! hehe
I know that I can max out 5th gear so having a 6th if geared correctly would be nice if I need to go 150mph (crazy) Otherwise you would probably still want the shift to 3rd after 60mph which would keep a similiar gearing. The biggest benefit would be having a car with either a higher redline or a lot more power. For example, the SVT has a higher redline which the 6spd allows the user to shift at redline around the same speed as our cars with the 5spd and the same thing for the Celica GTS. The Corvette and Cobra have a lot of power so the 5th gear is a lot closer to 1:1 instead of being a big over drive gear. You can also see that the Spec-V has a lot of issues with it's 6spd having a short 1st gear. Unfortunately, I feel that the 6spd hinders that car's overall acceleration from a stop.SpoolinMsp said:
I agree with bost posts above to a point. A 6 speed could possibly be more handy in a roll, but most likely the 6th gear would be an uber-overdrive gear. The problem with the spec v is that it requires 2 shifts to get to 60 mph, which hampers acceleration times. With a turbo car I prefer a 5 speed especially if you are running higher boost. Basically you could stay at max boost for a longer period of time without too much lag time. Even though a t25 doesn't have much lag time at all, but going with an upgraded turbo this could be an issue. For a car that is N/A a 6 speed would be more valuable to keep the engine in its sweet spot longer, but even those if geared wrong could be trouble. An example would be the celica gt-s. Even if you shift at redline, every shift makes you fall out of vvti. Not to mention the 6 speed in that car just plain sucks.
I dont think you would want to waste time with an SVT transmission. IMO Sourcing a 626 gearset and having it strenghtend will provide you with the gearing you are looking for. (i forget which years to get the 626, do a search i guess) anyways, you have to think about how much power you are going to have to handle. If you go an have a trans made, make sure it will handle more than what your motor is going to put out. ex: have a trans made that can handle 300hp daily in a 250hp MSP, helps out with the whole longevity thing from what I understand.
SpoolinMsp
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed
From the last few posts I think the creator of this thread should have a decision in his mind. If it were me personally I would stick with the 5spd after reading those. It seems like the specV and kind of falls on its face. Only complaint I have with the 5 is holding at 3k cruising down the interstate at 70mph.
Thanks for the great info guys. I just learned some good info. No see doesn't that help so much more than bad mouthing?
Thanks for the great info guys. I just learned some good info. No see doesn't that help so much more than bad mouthing?
Thanks for the advice guys
JFC! Notorious, JeffMSP, SpoolinMSP thank you. THAT is the kind of response I was looking for. Not knowing that much about it I wanted to figure out whether it was even possible or even a good idea. You have taught me something and that it what I'm looking for. I asked the question because I wasn't sure and you gave me a response that I can work with.
I see the shortcomings that jeffmsp mentions with the 6-speed, but my main reason for asking was the issue that spoolinmsp brings up. I would prefer the car to be at a slightly lower RPM range when crusing at speed on the highway, but without having to sacrifice low-end performance. I was wondering whether a 6-speed trannie might be the solution.
I suppose that it would be possible to change the gearing of the 5th gear alone to provide gearing more amenable to highway cruising correct? However, our turbo seems to drop off in 4th and 5th gear and changing the gearing this way would only make that situation worse right. Especially between 4th and 5th as now the gearing gap would be larger and cause you to be in a low-boost range for a longer period of time. In other words, you might be able to cruise at high speed with a low RPM range, but it would take a while to get there especially after you hit about 60mph/100kmh?
Rainman
JFC! Notorious, JeffMSP, SpoolinMSP thank you. THAT is the kind of response I was looking for. Not knowing that much about it I wanted to figure out whether it was even possible or even a good idea. You have taught me something and that it what I'm looking for. I asked the question because I wasn't sure and you gave me a response that I can work with.
I see the shortcomings that jeffmsp mentions with the 6-speed, but my main reason for asking was the issue that spoolinmsp brings up. I would prefer the car to be at a slightly lower RPM range when crusing at speed on the highway, but without having to sacrifice low-end performance. I was wondering whether a 6-speed trannie might be the solution.
I suppose that it would be possible to change the gearing of the 5th gear alone to provide gearing more amenable to highway cruising correct? However, our turbo seems to drop off in 4th and 5th gear and changing the gearing this way would only make that situation worse right. Especially between 4th and 5th as now the gearing gap would be larger and cause you to be in a low-boost range for a longer period of time. In other words, you might be able to cruise at high speed with a low RPM range, but it would take a while to get there especially after you hit about 60mph/100kmh?
Rainman
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What's the point?
Anyone can just go out and buy a car with a 6-speed trannie. That is easy and un-original. But not everyone can Frankenstein up a kickass ride with a custom-built 6-speed ala McGuyver can they. That is the whole point of tuning.
As I get closer to the end of my training and the possibility of making serious coin, I think more and more that it would be more satisfying to build a car that is a sleeping giant-killer (out of a car that was not intended to be that) rather than paying 3 or 4 times the money to buy something that is a monster out of the box.
As for the smack thing...I guess you must've been talking to my wife. She says the same thing every day...LOL!
Rainman
Anyone can just go out and buy a car with a 6-speed trannie. That is easy and un-original. But not everyone can Frankenstein up a kickass ride with a custom-built 6-speed ala McGuyver can they. That is the whole point of tuning.
As I get closer to the end of my training and the possibility of making serious coin, I think more and more that it would be more satisfying to build a car that is a sleeping giant-killer (out of a car that was not intended to be that) rather than paying 3 or 4 times the money to buy something that is a monster out of the box.
As for the smack thing...I guess you must've been talking to my wife. She says the same thing every day...LOL!
Rainman
DZnutz said:
SpoolinMsp
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed
Does the madza6 come in a 6spd m/t? I am thinking along the same lines as rainman about the rpms at high speed but not with replacing the tranny. The only way i know how to fix that is to change ratios but thats when you kind of get into a whole different set of s*** to fix or adjust.
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
I think a six speed with a 4.88 :1 differential would be an awsome set-up....however MSP's don't get very good traction as it is...
I think for a 6 speed in the msp, something along the lines of a shorter 4th and 5th gear with a tall 6th gear would work. With a shorter 4th and 5th be able to keep the motor in the powerband better, and the 6th gear would get you better gas mileage plus a higher top speed. Although something would probably have to be done about the internals as some people blow their motor boosting in 5th. Also with the shorter 4th and 5th gear you won't be sacrificing low end performance.
msubullyfan
Yeah, I'm an engineer...
- :
- 2005 Nissan Frontier 4x4
Don't apologize to him. There's no excuse to flame someone like that just for asking a question -- no matter how stupid you think the question is.Rainman said:
Funny thing is, he called you a "kid". Only one person's acting like a child here from this vantagepoint... and it ain't you.
msubullyfan
Yeah, I'm an engineer...
- :
- 2005 Nissan Frontier 4x4
Hmmm... there's a lot of conflicting information out there on whether or not this actually helps. For every instance where you can find someone who says it'll help, you can find one that says it won't.Notorious said:
We've looked into making gear sets in heavy machinery tougher at work, and we're finding a lot of engineering information that indicates that cryo-freezing most conventional alloys can actually make them appear tougher, but extended run hours on them indicate that the cryo treatment leads to alloy embrittlement, which actually can lead to premature failure.
The metals and applications for these are not unlike an automobile transmission - only bigger.
Just food for thought.
Charlie97L
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Blue MSP
here's something to think about
if you went with a standalone, you think you could swap an auto tranny from a p5 or mp3 in the MSP? haha. dunno why you would want to, but hey.
sorry for the random retarded comment (boom07)
if you went with a standalone, you think you could swap an auto tranny from a p5 or mp3 in the MSP? haha. dunno why you would want to, but hey.
sorry for the random retarded comment (boom07)
