MSP in comparison to a 2004 Toyota Celica Sport

[Spooled]

Yes and as you are trying to make it look like im thick and can not understand things you can not as well. Where outside of magazine testing do you see controled environment racing...No Where. It holds no weight in the real world

How so? Those controlled conditions show differences in the ability of the cars. Those abilities transfer into real-world performance. Are you saying that a car that is faster in a controlled environment will be slower under real-world conditions? Why would a driver (looking for the fastest straightline car) choose the car that was slower in the controlled environment?

Tests give insight as to the capabilities of the cars in releation to each other (not absolute, mind you, relational).

Sure, if you took home an MSP you may be able to get a faster time than the mag editor did with an RSX, but you would probably also get a faster time with that RSX than you would with the MSP.

 

[4001]

The point about corrected times is that you can compare a car running in 50 degree weather at 200 ft. below sea level to the same car running in 85 degree weather at 1500 ft. above sea level, and the difference in times will be huge. Tracks can make a difference, too (traction, grading, electronics [ie. tree]).

How so? Those controlled conditions show differences in the ability of the cars. Those abilities transfer into real-world performance. Are you saying that a car that is faster in a controlled environment will be slower under real-world conditions? Why would a driver (looking for the fastest straightline car) choose the car that was slower in the controlled environment?

Yes because your looking at one location (talking about magazine tests) and as you just stated different tracks and different venues can make an impact on a cars performance. Because its a controlled environment is why someone would understand that is not going to hold true in every aspect of real world driving.

 

[4001]

Sure, if you took home an MSP you may be able to get a faster time than the mag editor did with an RSX, but you would probably also get a faster time with that RSX than you would with the MSP.

Yes and thats because its a different driver behind the wheel, you were just saying the driver had nothing to do with it...weird

 

[jersey_emt]

Because any environmental advantages that the MSP gets in a given situation also hold true for the RSX. Cold air makes the MSP go faster? It also makes the RSX go faster, etc.

The point about corrected times is that you can compare a car running in 50 degree weather at 200 ft. below sea level to the same car running in 85 degree weather at 1500 ft. above sea level, and the difference in times will be huge. Point being: that 14.9 means nothing unless you compare it to another caar in the same conditions. Tracks can make a difference, too (traction, grading, electronics [ie. tree]).

Incorrect. Cold air will make the MSP go faster than an RSX-S because of the turbo...it compounds the increase. (If a 40 degree drop in temperature gives the RSX-S a 0.1 second increase, the MSP will get a 0.15-0.2 second increase).

And I am talking about the SAME EXACT CONDITIONS. Same track, same temperature, same humidity.

 

[Spooled]

Incorrect. Cold air will make the MSP go faster than an RSX-S because of the turbo...it compounds the increase. (If a 40 degree drop in temperature gives the RSX-S a 0.1 second increase, the MSP will get a 0.15-0.2 second increase).

And I am talking about the SAME EXACT CONDITIONS. Same track, same temperature, same humidity.

Same conditions as what? You just mentioned an MSP running 14.9. I didn't see a comparision.

 

[jersey_emt]

Same conditions as what? You just mentioned an MSP running 14.9. I didn't see a comparision.

Which is the best I've seen a stock RSX-S run at the same track, under similar conditions (within 5 degrees, same humidity) And actually I've seen MSPs consistently beat RSX-Ss. And I've also seen RSX-Ss consistently beat MSPs. (all stock)

They are EQUALS under EQUAL conditions, exactly like I've been trying to explain to you, but for some reason you can't understand it.

 

[Spooled]

Yes and thats because its a different driver behind the wheel, you were just saying the driver had nothing to do with it...weird

Seriously, you are dumb. If you read my post you would see that it is all about the relational difference in performance. You don't even know what you are arguing about.
=======================
Originally Posted by Spooled

Sure, if you took home an MSP you may be able to get a faster time than the mag editor did with an RSX, but you would probably also get a faster time with that RSX than you would with the MSP.
=======================

Now, I'm gonna hold your hand and walk you through this. What I just said there is that given a different driver driving the RSX and MSP, the MSP mey get a faster time, but if you take the difference in driving skills out of the equation, the RSX is faster, period. Here's an example:

Driver A / MSP: 15.4
Driver A / RSX: 15.2

Driver B / MSP: 15.1
Driver B / RSX: 14.9

See what I'm talking about? Driver B in an MSP may be able to get a faster time in an MSP than Driver A can in an RSX, but that doesn't mean that the MSP is the reason that the driver made it across the finish line first.

 

[Spooled]

Which is the best I've seen a stock RSX-S run at the same track, under similar conditions (within 5 degrees, same humidity) And actually I've seen MSPs consistently beat RSX-Ss. And I've also seen RSX-Ss consistently beat MSPs. (all stock)

They are EQUALS under EQUAL conditions, exactly like I've been trying to explain to you, but for some reason you can't understand it.

What I understand is that you have witnessed something that I have never seen. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, I'm just saying that if you take the driver from the fast MSP and put him in the RSX, he will be even faster.

 

[xtrememps]

(flame2) (stfu) (braindead (gun) (321fu) (doughpoke (fu) (mswerd)

 

[xtrememps]

That's all I see now.

 

[Spooled]

Yes because your looking at one location (talking about magazine tests) and as you just stated different tracks and different venues can make an impact on a cars performance. Because its a controlled environment is why someone would understand that is not going to hold true in every aspect of real world driving.

Tracks and evironments DO effect the cars' performances. but when you take the cars and put them in similar conditions, if affects them both.

 

[jersey_emt]

but if you take the difference in driving skills out of the equation, the RSX is faster, period.
.

No it's not. I can attest to this from personal experience, witnessing runs at the track, as well as several 'magazine races'.

A good friend of mine owns an RSX-S, don't you think we've 'studied' this comparison ourselves? And yes, we have driven each others cars quite a bit.

 

[Spooled]

(flame2) (stfu) (braindead (gun) (321fu) (doughpoke (fu) (mswerd)

You're right. I'm done. I've stated my point and tried to explain relational vs. absolute performance.

 

[xtrememps]

Tire pressure, temp., maintenance (oil, etc.), condition of clutch all make a difference in such close performing cars. (pissed)

 

[Spooled]

No it's not. I can attest to this from personal experience, witnessing runs at the track, as well as several 'magazine races'.

A good friend of mine owns an RSX-S, don't you think we've 'studied' this comparison ourselves? And yes, we have driven each others cars quite a bit.

Then I guess you are right. For the record, though, I've done the exact same thing. Maybe factory-freaks play a big role in it. Who knows

 

[Spooled]

I say just get what you want and mod the s*** out of it. Then you can compare it to Porsches and Vettes all day long instead of worrying about Acuras and Celicas.

 

[4001]

Now, I'm gonna hold your hand and walk you through this. What I just said there is that given a different driver driving the RSX and MSP, the MSP mey get a faster time, but if you take the difference in driving skills out of the equation, the RSX is faster, period. Here's an example:



Driver A / MSP: 15.4

Driver A / RSX: 15.2



Driver B / MSP: 15.1

Driver B / RSX: 14.9



See what I'm talking about? Driver B in an MSP may be able to get a faster time in an MSP than Driver A can in an RSX, but that doesn't mean that the MSP is the reason that the driver made it across the finish line first.

I was never one to hold another mans hand, try out for neverlands security force youd work well there. The whole point is that there are always differences in driving skills in every race. Stop sucking on the teat of the magazine editors and take a step in to the world. You just made up a condition that favors the RSX and you have no idea if in the real world it would play out that way.

 

[Spooled]

I was never one to hold another mans hand, try out for neverlands security force youd work well there. The whole point is that there are always differences in driving skills in every race. Stop sucking on the teat of the magazine editors and take a step in to the world. You just made up a condition that favors the RSX and you have no idea if in the real world it would play out that way.

This is based on real-world experience (those numbers were an example, by the way). I drive an RSX-S and MSP on a regular basis. And how does that situation favor the RSX? We have been talking straightline speed

 

[jersey_emt]

I say just get what you want and mod the s*** out of it. Then you can compare it to Porsches and Vettes all day long instead of worrying about Acuras and Celicas.

(yippy)

 

[4001]

This is based on real-world experience (those numbers were an example, by the way). I drive an RSX-S and MSP on a regular basis.

So now we know that one guy has ran both cars and from this one person among thousnads we have a proven fact in the world that the RSX-S is faster than the MSP, glad to know it was thoroughly investigated.