McLaren = Fu*ked!

[FlyinHawaiian]

As of today, 13 September 2007, the McLaren Mercedes Formula One team is stripped of all constructors championship points and fined $100 million for spy charges following the Stepney / Ferrari spy scandal...

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6767.html


Personally, I feel bad for both McLaren and Ferrari for this incident. McLaren have to suffer because some asshole accepted confidential information from a rogue Ferrari mechanic and punished the whole team. Although I think the ruling is fair and balanced, it is not fair to those who worked their asses off for the team. On the other hand, its a hollow constructors victory for Ferrari. I'm sure they don't want it this way and as a true tifosi I certainly don't want my team winning "by default."

Comment, concern, discuss?

Jeff

 

[gimpo2]

holy crap. thats crazy

 

[orlandomsp]

Noooooooo! McLaren! At least Hamilton and Alonso are safe.

 

[SuperProtege5]

Considering I hate McLaren and Ron Dennis, I'm all but ecstatic to see this. Like you I would not like to see Ferrari win "by default" as you say, but it's still better than McLaren winning. I think it would be totally awesome if a Ferrari driver won the Driver's championship, although right now it seems unlikely.

 

[Roywhitep5]

jesus! its hard to believe an organization can fine a team that much money. i wonder if that comes out of next years budget

 

[gimpo2]

jesus! its hard to believe an organization can fine a team that much money. i wonder if that comes out of next years budget

they are fining them 100million MINUS TV and travel costs or soemthing so might end up not being that much

 

[aMaff]

I can see what you're talking about from ferarri, but it wasn't one dude doing his thing. The entire organization knew about it.

For example:

"All the information from Ferrari is very reliable... It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now. He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer and he told him that."

That doesn't exactly scream 'one guy acting on his own.'
see more here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6995240.stm

If they were a stand up organization (who is these days tho...) they would have reported him...or at least refused the information. I guess like the Pats, they never thought they'd get caught


Who I really feel bad for is Hamilton, coming into the organization on such a high note, then having the rug pulled from under everyone.

 

[geomatics_tech]

Must be nice to have friends in such high places like Ferrari. Its ridiculous that McLaren gets in trouble for a disgruntled Ferrari employee giving away its information. Ferrari should really hire employees it can trust. I know its not very "sporting" but definitely not deserving of the penalty.

Oh well, Ferrari fans can be happy cause they won the constructors championship that they fought so hard for, but McLaren's drivers finished 1-2 in the drivers championship standings.

Go Alonso Go.

 

[aMaff]

So...it's Ferarri's fault that they had an employee leaking information, and that McLaren used information that they knew was coming from inside another team? Yeah...that makes sense...

 

[geomatics_tech]

It is Ferrari' fault, if Nigel Stepney hadn't photocopied the document how else would McLaren have been in possession of it. May not be directly Ferraris fault but it is more theirs than McLaren's fault. These cars are totally different so the likelihood of this information being valuable to McLaren is not probable. the only aspect of the info that would be important is the tire information as it is common between the two cars. Trying ideas and copying ideas are two different things.

Maybe Stepney should be fined the $100 million, but certainly not McLaren.

 

[aMaff]

Again, how is it Ferrari's fault that someone with that access did so? I can see at least an argument (though not a very good one) that it wasn't entirely McLaren's fault, but I fail completely to see how this could even remotely be pinned on Ferrari lol. And if the documents weren't of any use, they shouldn't have ever accepted them.

 

[FlyinHawaiian]

It is Ferrari' fault, if Nigel Stepney hadn't photocopied the document how else would McLaren have been in possession of it. May not be directly Ferraris fault but it is more theirs than McLaren's fault. Theses cars are totally different so the likelihood of this information being valuable to McLaren is not probable. the only aspect of the info that would be important is the tire information as it is common between the two cars. Trying ideas and copying ideas are two different things.

Maybe Stepney should be fined the $100 million, but certainly not McLaren.

Well I'm guessing its hard to control a disgruntled mechanic if his mind is set on really screwing the company. If you look a little deeper on www.formula1.com , you'll find that he also did other things to allow McLaren to gain a competitive advantage, which McLaren acted upon, such as: Giving them real-time pit-strategy information during the Austrailian GP; the front wing of the McLaren is a close replica of the original Ferrari front wing; wind-tunnel testing of various components done by McLaren's Mike Coughlan; as well as simulation testing of components performed by Pedro de la Rosa. This is not to mention that ALONSO knew about this information being passed back and forth, supported this information being passed back and forth, and involved himself in all of it.

Here's the link to support my facts: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6775.html

I know he's your driver, but he's as guilty as the team principals here and only got off the hook since he cooperated. The person I truly feel bad for is Hamilton because no matter what happens with his championship, it'll forever be tainted because his team, as well as his teammates cheated. Who knows if the team and the car was REALLY that good; I would like to think that it was, but things may have been much different had none of this gone down.

My opinion of Fernando Alonso fell drastically after the way he's treated Hamilton and whined to the world because some young-buck was handing him his own ass. To be honest I never thought much of him or his attitude anyways. After this, though, all wisps of remaining respect are gone.


-Jeff

 

[vindication]

fine them both, and give me the money. problem solved. Anyway MotoGP is where the good racing is, not F1. ohh and wrc also.

 

[misbehave]

With the constructor championship thing out of the way, now I can enjoy watching Lewis Hamilton beating Fernando Alonso for the driver champion with no need to hold back.

 

[aMaff]

My opinion of Fernando Alonso fell drastically after the way he's treated Hamilton and whined to the world because some young-buck was handing him his own ass. To be honest I never thought much of him or his attitude anyways. After this, though, all wisps of remaining respect are gone.


-Jeff

So I'm not the only one then? lol

 

[geomatics_tech]

Im not going to argue, but without the actions of the Ferrari employee this would have never been an issue.

I have followed this event from day 1, reading bbc, itv-f1, and f1-live.com (formula1.com is censored news as its owned by the FIA) and fully understand everything that has gone on. I still blame the actions of Stepney.

And, McLaren needs to provide all engineering drawings of their 2008 and 2009 cars before they are allowed to race, so you can rest assured Ferrari follower's that their is no Ferrari in the McLaren MP4-23 and 24.

 

[aMaff]

Im not going to argue, but without the actions of the Ferrari employee this would have never been an issue.

Yes, a SINGLE employee, not the organization like it was with McLaren, from engineers straight down the the test driver and one of the race drivers. I don't see how that can be pinned on the whole team.

 

[geomatics_tech]

My opinion of Fernando Alonso fell drastically after the way he's treated Hamilton and whined to the world because some young-buck was handing him his own ass. To be honest I never thought much of him or his attitude anyways. After this, though, all wisps of remaining respect are gone.


-Jeff

I don't think Alonso ever treated Hamilton unfairly in qualifying. It was Hamilton who didn't listen to team orders about the qualifying procedures, and Hamilton screwed himself by doing so. He was told to let Alonso pass him but never did, and therefore put himself out of the rotation.

Hamilton didn't hand Alonso s***, they are 2 points apart.

 

[FlyinHawaiian]

I don't think Alonso ever treated Hamilton unfairly in qualifying. It was Hamilton who didn't listen to team orders about the qualifying procedures, and Hamilton screwed himself by doing so. He was told to let Alonso pass him but never did, and therefore put himself out of the rotation.

Hamilton didn't hand Alonso s***, they are 2 points apart.

I'm not talking wholly about the qualifying affair, although it was a dick move nonetheless and was punished for it. Ever since Hamilton started winning, Alonso has not shown much warmth to him. Its been published in the media and is plainly visible on TV. Most recently was Alonso "understeering" Hamilton off the track at Spa Turn 1... His hands looked strangely straight on the wheel for that to be understeer...

He's a phenomenal driver, I'll give him that, but Alonso is not very much in the way of a sportsman...

 

[SuperProtege5]

I never liked Alonso and I don't like Hamilton anymore either. In my opinion, the fact that McLaren willingly accepted the information is enough for them to be guilty. Even if they didn't directly use the information they recievced, they can still test those designs and see if they work or not.