Mazdaspeed2oo35 Engine Build Round 2
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Wow guys. Stop talking out of your asses on this one. Piston to piston wear limit is .15 and Max. allowed overbore as per the Manual is .020(0.5)
So no,Miguel don't do it, it will go Kaboom as soon as it boosts.
Mazdaspeed2oo35
600whp - 600wtq at 30 PSI
Well the Machine shop gave me the option of putting Sleeves on each cylinder and use same size piston, they also told me Theyve done this same block on 84mm bore which is 0.40 0ver with no problems on few Mazda 626s and 4 Cylinder Ford Probes and theyve done Sleeves as well to these engines, Im not going to boost 35 Psi all day long not even 30, i dont race, i dont track the car i dont abuse the car they told me the max you can bore this block out is 0.40 over. and if something elses happens to the engine i either need to put sleeves or just get a new block.
I already tried sourcing a FS block in here and they just aint common on Junk Yards plus they dont sell only the block they sell the entire engine and they aint cheap either.
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
Famous last words.......
Mazdaspeed2oo35
600whp - 600wtq at 30 PSI
Well i have 0 Experience on machining an Engine block, I took my block to be checked for any damages and they told me they cannot fix the scracth the damaged piston did to the cylinder with a Honing or polishing, the only way is t jump from 83.5mm to 84mm, and I asked if there where any risk of doing that and they told me theyve done 84mm bore to these Engines before on Mazda 626s and Ford Probes, they also told me they have done sleeves as well and they asked me if i wanted to do that to all 4 cylinders and my answer were i have no idea what is better and guy told me both works and have been done before.. Thats all i can say about this subject..
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go back and read what I said
just because it's "fine", doesn't mean you can boost it (to the insane upper boundaries of this motor, TRYING to get your dyno bragging rights)
do 626s and probes come with a turbo? NO
do people in europe convert a nonturbo car to a turbo car? hardly!
if you're trying to be a total cheap ass, why don't you buy a 100% bare block with no pistons, no crankshaft, NOTHING except for the bearing caps and have it shipped over from the states?
you're walking on thin ice and you'll soon officially acquire dunce status if you do this because you're trying to cut corners at this point thinking you're going to save money when you're dead wrong and you're going to end up getting ass ****** by spending more money to fix your stupid mistakes after this blows up
and finally, after what caused this to begin with and your mechanic (with his so-called "expert" in belgium) jump up and down blaming wossner for the fuckup, what's making you trust THESE bigger (wossner) pistons now? they were insisting it's wossner's fault!
did your brain fall into the med sea?
just because it's "fine", doesn't mean you can boost it (to the insane upper boundaries of this motor, TRYING to get your dyno bragging rights)
do 626s and probes come with a turbo? NO
do people in europe convert a nonturbo car to a turbo car? hardly!
if you're trying to be a total cheap ass, why don't you buy a 100% bare block with no pistons, no crankshaft, NOTHING except for the bearing caps and have it shipped over from the states?
you're walking on thin ice and you'll soon officially acquire dunce status if you do this because you're trying to cut corners at this point thinking you're going to save money when you're dead wrong and you're going to end up getting ass ****** by spending more money to fix your stupid mistakes after this blows up
and finally, after what caused this to begin with and your mechanic (with his so-called "expert" in belgium) jump up and down blaming wossner for the fuckup, what's making you trust THESE bigger (wossner) pistons now? they were insisting it's wossner's fault!
did your brain fall into the med sea?
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justanothermp5
Banned
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Outlawstar98
Member
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- 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege / 2013 BRZ
you spent enough money on this car man, get a block from the states and ship it over if you cant find one. Just make a WTB or something for it.
Mazdaspeed2oo35
600whp - 600wtq at 30 PSI
Pretty damn Easy Edwin, Because Shipping will be around $ 500 plus custom fees plus the cost of the block itself. When the hell I have being cheap with my car ?????????
he'll be fine
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justanothermp5
Banned
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- Rust Bucket
lol nice one
Wagonbacker9
Member
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- 2004 'Hoe
compared to the money you have invested... peanuts.
Maxx Mazda
Contributor
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- Stock P5
Miguel, you always PM me and ask for advice, so I'm gonna give it to you here.
Understand this:
THE MAX OVERBORE PERMITTED BY MAZDA ON THE FS IS 0.020"
Let that sink in.... That should be answer enough for you, but seriously. Why chance it? Ask yourself how much it's gonna cost you if it blows AGAIN and this time think catastrophic failure, like piston through the block kinda failure.
You always cheap out every time you build your engine, and skip important steps, etc. Do it RIGHT for once, please. That block is junk, get a new one and start over.
Understand this:
THE MAX OVERBORE PERMITTED BY MAZDA ON THE FS IS 0.020"
Let that sink in.... That should be answer enough for you, but seriously. Why chance it? Ask yourself how much it's gonna cost you if it blows AGAIN and this time think catastrophic failure, like piston through the block kinda failure.
You always cheap out every time you build your engine, and skip important steps, etc. Do it RIGHT for once, please. That block is junk, get a new one and start over.
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- 2003.5 Laser Blue MSP
All I can say is that both Maxx and Focus have dealt with blown motors and building motors numerous times and know their stuff one this matter. Plus Edwin knows more than the average protege owner about the FS engines so taking the recommendation of these three guys is something I would GREATLY consider. Because in the end if something DOES happen, the shop will not cover your expenses, and you will be ******.
and people wonder why I get pissed when they come ask me for help/advice (which costs me time) then turn around and do something completely different... that's disrespectful and a waste of my time.... and I hate people wasting my time
so anyone thinking of not listening to my unbiased advice or just "considering it", don't bother me
so anyone thinking of not listening to my unbiased advice or just "considering it", don't bother me
$500 = small insurance policy. What is the ENTIRE rotating assembly in your engine worth? pistons? rods? cams? valves?... if you had to rebuild the ENTIRE thing, replacing EVERYTHING - what would it cost you? a lot more than $500 + custom fees etc.
If you can't afford it, then you really cannot afford to do what you're doing with this motor. People pay a small fortune for replacement engines - in my country its nothing to fork over $2000+ for a used motor, especially on motors that are difficult to come by. In the scheme of things, next to all the money you've spent, a replacement block (and all you need is the short motor, you don't need everything else) is small fry.
I also find it hard to believe you cannot get an FSDE from somewhere in europe that would cost you less to import than from the USA. Even if you can't get an FSDE, there are plenty of *other* engine options which are far more conducive to making the kind of horsepower you are thinking about making (the FE3N will put down 500hp on stock internals, the KLZE has the benefit of vastly more displacement).
you *may* be able to push the overbore further than permitted - but each time you do you will significanty reduce the lifespan of the engine. You suggest this car is a daily driver - a daily driver should be reliable, and withstand a good 100 000 miles without needing to open it up again *at least*. The kind of agressive overbores, and massive power numbers you are going for are the sorts of things you might see in a race motor that's rebuilt every 1000 miles. Add to that, you're not spending the money in the right places to support a race only motor, and you've got a grenade on your hands.
Frankly you are going to be up for a new block *anyway*. if you proceed with this kind of madness, you WILL destroy your engine, in a catastrophic sense. At that point, you're going to need to buy a new block and replace a lot of expensive parts you will burn up in the process. Knowing that blowing up your engine is a reality, spending the money on a new block now will actually save you money in the long run.
And I'll say it again, 600hp on a street driven front wheel drive car is insane. Either call it what it is, a dyno queen/race car, OR dial the power down to something more reasonable, and usable, and have something that is reliable and pleasant to drive. Just because the Puerto Rican's have made north of 600hp on the engine doesn't mean its a good idea to do it for a street car. And I'd hazard a guess they have done it right, and are still rebuilding the engines with monotonous regularity.
Whilst I may not always see eye to eye with Maxx and Edwin on some things - they are right on the money here. You're building an engine that is on borrowed time the second you fire it up. You'll be lucky to see 2 full tanks of gas in the thing before theres a hole the size of a watermelon in the side of the block.
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Maxx Mazda
Contributor
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- Stock P5
Wow... LordWorm just said it better than anyone could...
Wagonbacker9
Member
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- 2004 'Hoe
lets be realistic here. Miguel wants to be able to brag that he dyno'd a s*** ton of power out of the MSP, using a pedigree of branded parts. Other than that he doesn't give a s***... the car can't be called a daily driver any more, not with the amount of down time its had, which is exactly what you should expect when you're north of 4x the stock power of a vehicle.
Miguel, good luck. Feel free to build a dangerously overbored engine, strap it on a dyno, and put down some crazy numbers. When it pops either on the dyno, getting tuned, or shortly after... We will all point, laugh, and say "They told you so".
Miguel, good luck. Feel free to build a dangerously overbored engine, strap it on a dyno, and put down some crazy numbers. When it pops either on the dyno, getting tuned, or shortly after... We will all point, laugh, and say "They told you so".
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
Look I'm really not trying to bust your balls or anything like that. I'm simply saying that I've constantly seen you put more trust in shops/builders that don't necessarily deserve it. At the end of the day they are just trying to make a buck off you. Did they show any prove of the longevity of these motors that were bored that much? Just please use some common sense.
You may not have any experience on what the block limits are but there are obviously a few in here that are, and they aren't making any money off of you. Simply trying save you some heartache and money. More and more I see you ignoring the advice of people WITH experience and just letting people take advantage of you and your money.
I mean why be on a forum like this if your not going to use it as tool to aid in researching and learning from other peoples mistakes?
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