Mazda's Cars Are Good But Its Dealers Are Still Kind of Awful

[Kaps]

I had a TSB performed (without my knowledge) while taking my car in for oil change. They advised it was performed and documented on my service receipt. They installed updated door sills of some sort on my Mazda6 to replace ones with sharp edges they could cut your skin.

Fact is if that service advisor is familiar with a known TSB (either through trending complaints or perhaps an email from corporate) they will perform it. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't TSBs' are more service money for them? They benefit from that and from a more happier customer.

TSB is money but it isn't the most easy money. Most easy money is Fuel Induction Service for 120 bucks on a car with 20K miles on it. If you do it or watch John Oliver talking about WWE on YT most customers would not know about it. You get $120, your mechanic learns about Wince McMahon and your customer is happy going home saying I got Fuel Induction Service. Changing cabin air filter on every car that comes in the bay for $45 is easy money. Changing AC Vents with a TSB where Mazda pays for 30 minutes of work where your mechanics are so god awful it will taken them 2 hours to figure it out and another hour to do it - is not easy money. A dealer here in DFW conveniently disconnects every time I say TSB. So TSBs are about avg. in making money. Pushing unnecessary service like 3K oil changes etc. are easy money. If you only got 3 semi competent techs working they are more interested in drivetrain and big ticket items than trims / squeaks etc.

And to point out - every brand has good and bad dealers - agree but what fraction are good? Did you even read the Jalop article? Mazda dealer saying he "builds" the car in his bay as the car from Japan does not come fully built. That is some dope level s*** - like the Hyundai dealer saying he cannot remove the cargo net because it comes installed from Korea - like dude its in a bag in the trunk. Its not installed whatsoever.
If I aggregate my dealer experience - Mazda is probably in the ballpark of Hyundai. Not kia / Mitsu level awful but awful nonetheless. Lexus didn't become lexus if their dealers were as crappy as Toyota / Nissan. If Mazda is pushing the "eco premium" crap then dealerships are part of the equation. The other thread where this dude's car was stolen because he used roadside assistance - just tells you they are overall behind in the entire supply chain.

 

[FRED48]

My Mazda service was one of the big reasons I bought a second Mazda; sales? not so much. Not saying they tried to rip me off, just made silly mistakes in the paperwork.

 

[FRED48]

Re road side assist: So, if I need a tow, should I go to Mazda, or to my insurance co (Geico)?

 

[JRM1022]

TSB is money but it isn't the most easy money. Most easy money is Fuel Induction Service for 120 bucks on a car with 20K miles on it. If you do it or watch John Oliver talking about WWE on YT most customers would not know about it. You get $120, your mechanic learns about Wince McMahon and your customer is happy going home saying I got Fuel Induction Service. Changing cabin air filter on every car that comes in the bay for $45 is easy money. Changing AC Vents with a TSB where Mazda pays for 30 minutes of work where your mechanics are so god awful it will taken them 2 hours to figure it out and another hour to do it - is not easy money. A dealer here in DFW conveniently disconnects every time I say TSB. So TSBs are about avg. in making money. Pushing unnecessary service like 3K oil changes etc. are easy money. If you only got 3 semi competent techs working they are more interested in drivetrain and big ticket items than trims / squeaks etc.

And to point out - every brand has good and bad dealers - agree but what fraction are good? Did you even read the Jalop article? Mazda dealer saying he "builds" the car in his bay as the car from Japan does not come fully built. That is some dope level s*** - like the Hyundai dealer saying he cannot remove the cargo net because it comes installed from Korea - like dude its in a bag in the trunk. Its not installed whatsoever.
If I aggregate my dealer experience - Mazda is probably in the ballpark of Hyundai. Not kia / Mitsu level awful but awful nonetheless. Lexus didn't become lexus if their dealers were as crappy as Toyota / Nissan. If Mazda is pushing the "eco premium" crap then dealerships are part of the equation. The other thread where this dude's car was stolen because he used roadside assistance - just tells you they are overall behind in the entire supply chain.

Actually when my mom had her Kia the dealer was pretty good. The car was steaming pile of crap, but the dealer who worked on was good. At least the service was, I don't remember the sales.

Re road side assist: So, if I need a tow, should I go to Mazda, or to my insurance co (Geico)?

Neither, forgo both and get a basic AAA membership.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

But - let's be fair. If you want special treatment then be a decent customer. Establish a relationship on the easy stuff like oil changes.

I had planned on doing exactly that. I planned on investing in a relationship by paying a little more to have them do the routine stuff rather than me doing it. Then I went through the post-sale experience with the finance guy:

-He wanted to sell me a tire & wheel repair plan. The picture on the plan had an exploded diagram of a complete front end, with repair costs pointing to various components. I said "I thought this just covered the rubber and the round metal thing it mounts on. What's with the diagram of all the front end repair costs on it?" He said "Yeh, I hate that picture."

-He tried to sell me a prepaid service package, which included 3 oil changes at the deeply discounted price of $90 each...PREPAID!!!!

It makes me angry. I wanted someone I could rely on.

The "finance guy process" notwithstanding, they think that paying $90 in advance for a package of oil changes is a discount!!!! No way will I trust them with something of significant cost. I have no idea what I will do if I require repairs and not just maintenance items.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

I think that is company culture more than it is service people in general. Again as a technician who works at a dealership, if a customer brought me a TSB that dealt with an issue I had already supposedly "fixed" on their car, I would be extremely embarrassed. And the service manager would be embarrassed for me, and he wouldn't be very happy with me. That customer would probably be getting VIP treatment to make up for it.

Yup.

That applies to about every company I have ever worked for. After a while you can smell a demoralized workforce during the interview process.

 

[sm1ke]

Didn't I read that Mazda is removing their TSBs from the public domain?

Some of us are gonna be S.O.L. in trying to get issues remediated, given the dealer experiences.

Where did you read that? I think it was mentioned on the forum that the TSBs were removed from the forum, but not from the public domain (meaning they would still be accessible, just not hosted or linked to on the forum). I'm guessing that Mazda wants to have all the TSBs hosted in one place (probably their website) to avoid broken or outdated links. Just a guess though.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Where did you read that? I think it was mentioned on the forum that the TSBs were removed from the forum, but not from the public domain (meaning they would still be accessible, just not hosted or linked to on the forum). I'm guessing that Mazda wants to have all the TSBs hosted in one place (probably their website) to avoid broken or outdated links. Just a guess though.

Oops.

I just went back and reread that thread.

I deleted my comment...no need to spread BS.

Thanks....

 

[JRM1022]

I had planned on doing exactly that. I planned on investing in a relationship by paying a little more to have them do the routine stuff rather than me doing it. Then I went through the post-sale experience with the finance guy:

-He wanted to sell me a tire & wheel repair plan. The picture on the plan had an exploded diagram of a complete front end, with repair costs pointing to various components. I said "I thought this just covered the rubber and the round metal thing it mounts on. What's with the diagram of all the front end repair costs on it?" He said "Yeh, I hate that picture."

-He tried to sell me a prepaid service package, which included 3 oil changes at the deeply discounted price of $90 each...PREPAID!!!!

It makes me angry. I wanted someone I could rely on.

The "finance guy process" notwithstanding, they think that paying $90 in advance for a package of oil changes is a discount!!!! No way will I trust them with something of significant cost. I have no idea what I will do if I require repairs and not just maintenance items.

My dad and I had an extremely similar experience with the finance guy when my dad bought his CX-5. The salesman was great, the finance guy was awful. He kept pushing a third party warranty that we didn't want. I do remember him try to sell a tire and wheel protection plan. He showed us one of those extremely oversimplified yet confusing pictures of the stuff covered by this warranty. The car was Certified Pre-Owned anyways, so it already came with a great warranty. He kept bringing it up again and again saying, "Oh that car has a lot of expensive computers and sensors and they always go bad, blah blah blah" (so wait, you are selling me a car and telling me it's gonna fail?) And "You're going to regret this" until finally I spoke up and said "Bring it up one more time and we are walking out that f***ing door and we'll buy another car somewhere else." He didn't bring it up again, but if he had, he would've lost that sale.

 

[pcardoza]

Those add-on's are huge money makers for the dealerships and the finance people get a cut of those sales. I took the same stance when I bought my GTR. It quickly shut him up!

My dad and I had an extremely similar experience with the finance guy when my dad bought his CX-5. The salesman was great, the finance guy was awful. He kept pushing a third party warranty that we didn't want. I do remember him try to sell a tire and wheel protection plan. He showed us one of those extremely oversimplified yet confusing pictures of the stuff covered by this warranty. The car was Certified Pre-Owned anyways, so it already came with a great warranty. He kept bringing it up again and again saying, "Oh that car has a lot of expensive computers and sensors and they always go bad, blah blah blah" (so wait, you are selling me a car and telling me it's gonna fail?) And "You're going to regret this" until finally I spoke up and said "Bring it up one more time and we are walking out that f***ing door and we'll buy another car somewhere else." He didn't bring it up again, but if he had, he would've lost that sale.

 

[sm1ke]

All I can say is that if you go in to the dealer expecting s*** service, your attitude will be reflected in the people you deal with. It's the same as going into a restaurant expecting terrible service, and treating the server who greets you like they've already done something wrong. At that point, they're already demotivated because they're expecting a poor tip (or no tip) based on your attitude. There's no more incentive to provide good service, so the best you get is the bare minimum.

Sometimes you run into a crooked staff member or experience shady practices at a dealership and it can't be helped (i.e. dirty filters under the counter, $90 "discounted" oil changes, etc.). I still think that it's no reason to write off the entire dealership. Avoidin Deer, in your case with the oil changes, your finance guy tried to sell you on an overpriced oil change package. That's reason enough for me to avoid the finance guy in the future, but not enough for me avoid the salesman who sold me the car, or the service dept who might do work on the car. Whenever I go to the dealership (or anywhere really), I go in as the type of customer I'd like to deal with if I was in their shoes. 90% of the time this leads to great service.

Kaps, Mazda's dealers do have some things to work on, I agree - but then again, so does every other dealer. If it's that hard to find a good dealer, find an independent shop, and only go to the dealer for recalls/TSBs. Dealer won't handle TSBs? Contact MNAO and complain. The s*** always rolls downhill, and maybe eventually one of your dealers will get their s*** together.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

All I can say is that if you go in to the dealer expecting s*** service, your attitude will be reflected in the people you deal with. It's the same as going into a restaurant expecting terrible service, and treating the server who greets you like they've already done something wrong. At that point, they're already demotivated because they're expecting a poor tip (or no tip) based on your attitude. There's no more incentive to provide good service, so the best you get is the bare minimum.

Sometimes you run into a crooked staff member or experience shady practices at a dealership and it can't be helped (i.e. dirty filters under the counter, $90 "discounted" oil changes, etc.). I still think that it's no reason to write off the entire dealership. Avoidin Deer, in your case with the oil changes, your finance guy tried to sell you on an overpriced oil change package. That's reason enough for me to avoid the finance guy in the future, but not enough for me avoid the salesman who sold me the car, or the service dept who might do work on the car. Whenever I go to the dealership (or anywhere really), I go in as the type of customer I'd like to deal with if I was in their shoes. 90% of the time this leads to great service.

Kaps, Mazda's dealers do have some things to work on, I agree - but then again, so does every other dealer. If it's that hard to find a good dealer, find an independent shop, and only go to the dealer for recalls/TSBs. Dealer won't handle TSBs? Contact MNAO and complain. The s*** always rolls downhill, and maybe eventually one of your dealers will get their s*** together.

I agree that either party can set the tone of the relationship. I spent my career in corporate procurement management. I get these things.

But that finance guy is an employee of the dealership. He did not offer that rip-off package all on his own.
He did not create it...the dealership did. They pay him to sell that product that they created.

The employees of that business (or any business) might personally be great people, but they don't set the tone, the prices or the policy of the business.

This has nothing to do with any individual except for the owner.
The rest have no latitude...they are just following orders.

 

[dougal]

I agree that either party can set the tone of the relationship. I spent my career in corporate procurement management. I get these things.

But that finance guy is an employee of the dealership. He did not offer that rip-off package all on his own.
He did not create it...the dealership did. They pay him to sell that product that they created.

The employees of that business (or any business) might personally be great people, but they don't set the tone, the prices or the policy of the business.

This has nothing to do with any individual except for the owner.
The rest have no latitude...they are just following orders.

The job of the dealer is to make money. That is their #1 priority and it should be. Not to make you happy or give you the best deal. To make money. It is your job to be aware of this and make the best decisions for you. Buyer beware.

 

[concept]

The job of the dealer is to make money. That is their #1 priority and it should be. Not to make you happy or give you the best deal. To make money. It is your job to be aware of this and make the best decisions for you. Buyer beware.

Actually, in this age of social media and Yelp, it is highly important for the dealership to make the customer happy. Of course, sometimes this is not possible with certain customers.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

The job of the dealer is to make money. That is their #1 priority and it should be. Not to make you happy or give you the best deal. To make money. It is your job to be aware of this and make the best decisions for you. Buyer beware.

Sure, I understand that an unprofitable business isn't gonna be around long, and likely could not serve us in the first place.

And we could have a discussion regarding the interdependence of happy customers and making money, but that implies a reasonably perfect (or deep) market with adequate competition.

I believe that there is a the significant lack of that state for Mazda dealerships because of Mazda's relatively small footprint in the United States. I can drive a few miles and hit several Chevy dealerships. I gotta go nearly 60 miles to find the next nearest Mazda dealership. But Mazda is an extreme example of the imperfection of the automobile market in general.

The dealership model intentionally restricts competition. I can't think of any other business type that intentionally tries to to rip customers off this way, and they only do it because there are limited buying options. Telling someone that doing their own oil changes will void the warranty on a $35,000 item is a flat-out lie, not just not making someone happy.

I understand caveat emptor and all that. I also understand that people really hate the car buying experience because of the uniquely restrictive way the high dollar product is sold. Caveat emptor does not absolve the business from behaving in an ethical manner, and only adequate competition can impose it.

 

[CX-5um]

Actually when my mom had her Kia the dealer was pretty good. The car was steaming pile of crap, but the dealer who worked on was good. At least the service was, I don't remember the sales.



Neither, forgo both and get a basic AAA membership.

Got the same experience with a local VW dealership. The VW CC had minor TSB-related issues but the dealer is top notch. I wished they were a VW/Mazda combo dealership.

 

[pcardoza]

This is all so true! Buying a new car is one of the few transactions where negotiations are so adversarial, from start to finish! Part of the culture developed over decades, I suppose. There's a Honda dealer near me who does the no-negotiation pricing and lists their bottom line on every vehicle. However is all falls back on the old ways when it comes to the financial guys upselling and negotiating trade-in values.

Sure, I understand that an unprofitable business isn't gonna be around long, and likely could not serve us in the first place.

And we could have a discussion regarding the interdependence of happy customers and making money, but that implies a reasonably perfect (or deep) market with adequate competition.

I believe that there is a the significant lack of that state for Mazda dealerships because of Mazda's relatively small footprint in the United States. I can drive a few miles and hit several Chevy dealerships. I gotta go nearly 60 miles to find the next nearest Mazda dealership. But Mazda is an extreme example of the imperfection of the automobile market in general.

The dealership model intentionally restricts competition. I can't think of any other business type that intentionally tries to to rip customers off this way, and they only do it because there are limited buying options. Telling someone that doing their own oil changes will void the warranty on a $35,000 item is a flat-out lie, not just not making someone happy.

I understand caveat emptor and all that. I also understand that people really hate the car buying experience because of the uniquely restrictive way the high dollar product is sold. Caveat emptor does not absolve the business from behaving in an ethical manner, and only adequate competition can impose it.

 

[Unobtanium]

Honestly, has anybody been to a dealer that is good? My Honda's have always sucked as have my Subaru's and Toyota's. Every visit used to cost me $500. Even with our Odyssey they were asking for $2000-$3000 for various things. My Mazda dealer experience has been 1000x better than any other experience.

I would also argue that the article really highlights what Mazda's customer base was: low end buyers who were buying the car because it was the cheapest thing around. In that way, I would bet that the dealer experience is similar to Nissan.

Yeah, my GM dealer and my Mazda dealer. My Chrysler dealer was "meh", and my Nissan dealer was absolute s***. It's an amazing story of yelling, screaming, people getting fired, managers lying to Nissan North America and me, car-swaps at 9pm in wal-mart parkinglots with the assistant service manager, and a nearly wrecked 370Z. I wouldn't own a Nissan if you gave it to me, solely because of that dealership, whether that's rational (it's not), or not.

 

[Unobtanium]

I had a TSB performed (without my knowledge) while taking my car in for oil change. They advised it was performed and documented on my service receipt.

Fact is if that service advisor is familiar with a known TSB (either through trending complaints or perhaps an email from corporate) they will perform it. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't TSBs' are more service money for them? They benefit from that and from a more happier customer.

Absolutely true, and this is how my Jeep's AWD system became disabled.
https://jalopnik.com/jeep-owners-say-a-recall-ruined-their-4wd-chrysler-say-1573426014

Let me tell you, N23 was 100% legit, real, nasty.

 

[Unobtanium]

Here in the SF Bay Area I expect service all service providing companies and individuals to provide weak, substandard service. Whether that be a restaurant, clothing store, bank, or car dealer, if one goes in expecting the worst he/she is not disappointed if service proves to be decent or better.

Same for when I lived in Shreveport, although one company, the local Chevrolet dealership, went so far above and beyond for me it's crazy. I was a broke college student, and my car (2001 Trans AM WS.6) was having ignition issues (steering column). They kept it overnight and took the column apart, and put it back togather, and told me some BS about "we couldn't find what's wrong, but we thing we inadvertently fixed it, but since we can't tell you what was wrong, no charge...*wink wink*". They sold me a new clutch at dealer cost 10%. They did a ton of little stuff like that for me when I was in college. In return, 8 months after graduating, I went and bought a new Z06 from them. kindness can pay. Not always, but it can.