Mazda Speed Protege Vs. Vw GTI 1.8 Turbo?

[jeffmsp]

read and learn people. wtf are you all french. next person who says the msp cant make HP gets banned from this board

13s in the QM for under $1000

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123617152

12s on STOCK MOTOR

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123622160

 

[jeffmsp]

/flame

 

[Earful]

All of this flaming notwithstanding...have you ever tried to remove an oilpan on a VW, you have to take the fricking front cross-member off!....pain to work on and mod....

 

[Velocifero]

All of this flaming notwithstanding...have you ever tried to remove an oilpan on a VW, you have to take the fricking front cross-member off!....pain to work on and mod....

dude, its hard just to change the brakes on VWs!

 

[jeffmsp]

VWs do look nice, ill give them that and ya you can make any car fast, but the msp pwns. LSD, stock turbocharger that can flow more than 250WHP, best handling, the best looking mazda sedan,not too heavy,nice interior, and already has a mint stereo just add a bigger sub and you are done, got the rims, its got everything. its as good of a starting point you can get IMO. Add a G and you are in the 13s and outhandling everything fwd. how much better can you get?

 

[srvntfhim]

VWs do look nice, ill give them that and ya you can make any car fast, but the msp pwns. LSD, stock turbocharger that can flow more than 250WHP, best handling, the best looking mazda sedan,not too heavy,nice interior, and already has a mint stereo just add a bigger sub and you are done, got the rims, its got everything. its as good of a starting point you can get IMO. Add a G and you are in the 13s and outhandling everything fwd. how much better can you get?

Yeah yeah yeah, in many ways the msp is better than the a VW but I'm talking about engine performance. You say your run 12psi and you say it is safe but I've never seen so many blown motors/trannys anywhere other than this board with only 12psi. Some guys blow their trannys at 9psi and less. You call that reliable hp? You don't find that kind of rep in any of the VWs. Sure they might be uglier stock and handle worth crap as well as be very difficult to work on, but I'd rather be running 20psi on a VW than run 12psi in my msp, and yes I'm well aware you can mod an msp....and if you want to bann me from the board for saying all of that, go for it but you don't seem to be much more informed than me. more psi on msp = possible blown tranny or engine. more psi on VW = don't even worry about the tranny, you've just got more hp!

 

[srvntfhim]

And one last comparison:
My friend has an 01 1.8t gti. His performance mods are: intake, turbo back exhaust, fmic, upgraded DV, big turbo and the chip to accomodate it as well as NOS for the extra occasional kick. He runs about 320hp without the NOS with all of those mods and runs 20-24psi daily. He's been doing this for almost 40k miles without any issues whatsoever.
Now if you were to run all of that in an msp with stock internals like you can on a VW, it would blow up. The big turbo would blow pistons if it doesn't blow the tranny first. The msp can't dream of safely running 20psi on stock internals. And if you were to hook up NOS to the msp it would simply blow up into tiny little pieces.
So there's your comparison that I think very clearly makes my point. The msp is superior stock for stock (if you get a good one and the tranny doesn't go on you for no reason), but if you want to run some serious hp, forget about it on stock internals. You'll have to invest some serious money to get the car to handle that hp (forged internals and quaife at least). Some of the VW turbo diesels I've seen run 30psi on stock internals. Don't even try to tell me that the msp can touch that!

 

[MikeAwesome42]

its all true, we know that very streetable VWs can handle large amounts of power, and its true that the MSP cant handle nearly as much, but people seem to be forgetting or neglecting the fact that the MSP is not a horsepower car. if you want to compare both cars you have to compare them on level playing fields, or at least address both things. sure, a VW can make nasty power, and a comparable MSP would blow up. but ive yet to be in a GTi that handled curves as well as a MSP could. im not saying which one is superior, im just saying that you cant quite compare them equally. know what i mean?

 

[Jspeed17]

Hey, by the way, i just raced at lebanon valley wed. night. Some sick cars there, but i got my props for a 13.95 @ 103.5mph. Might be pickin up a GLH omni soon though. Saw one that looked like garbage run 12.4 @ 118!!!!!!

 

[speedprotegewi]

Hey, by the way, i just raced at lebanon valley wed. night. Some sick cars there, but i got my props for a 13.95 @ 103.5mph. Might be pickin up a GLH omni soon though. Saw one that looked like garbage run 12.4 @ 118!!!!!!

nice!! what mods are you running?

 

[srvntfhim]

its all true, we know that very streetable VWs can handle large amounts of power, and its true that the MSP cant handle nearly as much, but people seem to be forgetting or neglecting the fact that the MSP is not a horsepower car. if you want to compare both cars you have to compare them on level playing fields, or at least address both things. sure, a VW can make nasty power, and a comparable MSP would blow up. but ive yet to be in a GTi that handled curves as well as a MSP could. im not saying which one is superior, im just saying that you cant quite compare them equally. know what i mean?

Yes and I agree. Stock for stock there are a lot of better quality things on the msp. But the best bang for your buck in hp gains for your money is the gti. That was my point. And I agree that you can't truly compare them because just when the msp starts looking great, you remember the weak tranny and crappy internals and just when the gti or some other vw begins to look good you remember how ugly and clunky they are stock. In terms of the original subject of this thread and which would win stock in a dragrace, I would bet more so on the gti just because it runs 9psi stock (if it is at least a 2002) and has a few more horsies than the msp stock but I don't really know.

 

[Jspeed17]

42,000MI On my MSP and never had an engine OR tranny prob, with exception of my clutch because i was making too much POWER. It's all up to the driver. I've smoked many a Vee-dubs on the street at only 10psi. If you're smart, an efficient turbo system is a better turbo system. And i've worked on even more of them because, guess what, THEY BREAK TOO!!! I've never seen more check engine lights at my shop than on vw's. And they SUCK to work on.

 

[FlyinMSP]

42,000MI On my MSP and never had an engine OR tranny prob, with exception of my clutch because i was making too much POWER. It's all up to the driver. I've smoked many a Vee-dubs on the street at only 10psi. If you're smart, an efficient turbo system is a better turbo system. And i've worked on even more of them because, guess what, THEY BREAK TOO!!! I've never seen more check engine lights at my shop than on vw's. And they SUCK to work on.

I agree. The MSP is a much better performer if you don't use the gas pedal as an on/off switch and dump the clutch all the time

 

[Jspeed17]

I agree. The MSP is a much better performer if you don't use the gas pedal as an on/off switch and dump the clutch all the time

Hey, where'd you get those rear stab. bar bushings and endlinks if you don't mind? Mine are shot AGAIN!!!

 

[Jspeed17]

Yes and I agree. Stock for stock there are a lot of better quality things on the msp. But the best bang for your buck in hp gains for your money is the gti. That was my point. And I agree that you can't truly compare them because just when the msp starts looking great, you remember the weak tranny and crappy internals and just when the gti or some other vw begins to look good you remember how ugly and clunky they are stock. In terms of the original subject of this thread and which would win stock in a dragrace, I would bet more so on the gti just because it runs 9psi stock (if it is at least a 2002) and has a few more horsies than the msp stock but I don't really know.

You can make no points on this forum talking about VW's. The MSP is cheaper, easier to work on, and the gti is, believe it or not, heavier. I gained 42whp at 10 psi with my $400 downpipe-back exhaust. Try finding an exh. for the GTI for that. My tranny has showed no signs of giving up cause i know how to shift!

 

[FlyinMSP]

Hey, where'd you get those rear stab. bar bushings and endlinks if you don't mind? Mine are shot AGAIN!!!

I got the Delsing Bracket + Urethane greasable bushings (Energy Suspension) + Endlinks.
End of problem and, as bonus, even better handling!

Delsing is unfortunately out of business, but someone else on the board is making a similar bracket (I'll see if I can find it for you..)

EDIT: There you go: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123624849&page=1&pp=15

 

[srvntfhim]

You can make no points on this forum talking about VW's. The MSP is cheaper, easier to work on, and the gti is, believe it or not, heavier. I gained 42whp at 10 psi with my $400 downpipe-back exhaust. Try finding an exh. for the GTI for that. My tranny has showed no signs of giving up cause i know how to shift!

You are definitely not open minded about this. That's impressive work with the downpipe back exhaust, but that doesn't make the VW's performance abilities null and void. It is silly to make the statement that since your car has no problems than msps are definitely better. I know you've been on the forums and have seen plenty of blown trannys and I hope you aren't trying to tell me that they blow (and the pistons too) because people don't know how to shift.....its also silly to write VWs off just because of their frequent CELs since most VW CELs are little quirks, not big problems like blown LSDs. My point was that the engines in the V-dubs are stronger stock and you can run more psi and get more hp for less money. Your downpipe back exhaust is great work but that doesn't make my statement here false. When you are running 20psi on stock msp internals for several months (although from what I've seen I think it would only be a matter of days) then I'll be more inclined to here your point, but I know that won't happen for very long.

 

[PlatinumMSP]

i destroy GTI's in my almost stock msp, the only performance part i have installed right now is an intake

 

[FlyinMSP]

You are definitely not open minded about this. That's impressive work with the downpipe back exhaust, but that doesn't make the VW's performance abilities null and void. It is silly to make the statement that since your car has no problems than msps are definitely better. I know you've been on the forums and have seen plenty of blown trannys and I hope you aren't trying to tell me that they blow (and the pistons too) because people don't know how to shift.....its also silly to write VWs off just because of their frequent CELs since most VW CELs are little quirks, not big problems like blown LSDs. My point was that the engines in the V-dubs are stronger stock and you can run more psi and get more hp for less money. Your downpipe back exhaust is great work but that doesn't make my statement here false. When you are running 20psi on stock msp internals for several months (although from what I've seen I think it would only be a matter of days) then I'll be more inclined to here your point, but I know that won't happen for very long.

On the other hand, all you need to do is to change the rods in the MSP's motor and voil!

 

[zentrandi]

if you're gonna do that, might as well go for better lower compression pistons too, bore and sleve the block then bump up the boost like a little *&#ch =)