Mazda 626 Intake Manifold = ********** Intake Manifold

Spooled · Oct 10, 2005

I think you guys might be confusing some people on here that aren't totally familiar with how VICS works. It's not actually dual runners. It's a valved chamber that opens up to change the frequency of the intake pulses.

There is no doubt that the extra inertia from the intake pulses will make it flow better whether it's N/A or F/I, but it's possible that a turbo setup, especially a quick spooling one, would make gains with a single, totally smooth version of the same manifold (626) that outweigh the help of VICS. The only way to find out is to dyno them back-to-back it. Wink wink, Bryan...

Aricjm15 · Oct 10, 2005

D323 said:
That proves nothing. You need to compare a dual runners manifold to a single runner manifold. Not short runners vs long runners in a dual manifold.

I'd be curious to see those Miata dyno charts, b/c I can tell you on the BP in the older proteges, the NA BP's in North American intakes are dual runners. Yet in the overseas "performance" motors (GTX/GTR) they use a single runner intake manifold. Mazda wouldn't go through the hassel of redesigning a poorer flowing intake manifold for the "performance" motors.

learn to read, it IS a dual runner manifold, they just tested it with the flaps closed, then the flaps open.
with the flaps closed look at how it drops off very early on, with them open it makes power much higher up. Even if it was two seperate manifolds the idea is the same, a dual runner manifold is basically TWO seperate manifolds.

xelderx · Oct 10, 2005

Just remember that Mazda did not make the dual runner manifold to make more HP on the MSP. They designed for it an N/A motor. The difference between airflow once you go from vacumm to boost changes everything.

Alejo_NIN · Oct 10, 2005

so, why use it on a turbo application? in this case the mazdaspeed....loosing horsies over saving money really that worthy?

Nightmare · Oct 10, 2005

xelderx said:
Just remember that Mazda did not make the dual runner manifold to make more HP on the MSP. They designed for it an N/A motor. The difference between airflow once you go from vacumm to boost changes everything.

Absolutly correct.

this car was never ment to be boosted.
but here we are anyway

igdrasil · Oct 10, 2005

xelderx said:
Just remember that Mazda did not make the dual runner manifold to make more HP on the MSP. They designed for it an N/A motor. The difference between airflow once you go from vacumm to boost changes everything.

It will also help on turbo. Remember, a turbo will pressurize even more an already pressurized air (14.7psi ambient aprox).

Try this...run @ 7psi lean combustion and you will notice a BIG ASS DIFFERENCE when the secondary runners open up, it feels like a small nitrous shot or a VTEC.

xelderx · Oct 10, 2005

igdrasil said:
It will also help on turbo. Remember, a turbo will pressurize even more an already pressurized air (14.7psi ambient aprox).

Try this...run @ 7psi lean combustion and you will notice a BIG ASS DIFFERENCE when the secondary runners open up, it feels like a small nitrous shot or a VTEC.

Very true, but the question remains. Does it make more HP than a single runner setup. I'm not schooled enough on the dynamics involved to make an argument either way so I'm just going to sit back and wait like everyone else. I find it very suspect though that the dual runner setup the MSP has now is the optimal way to go since Mazda made zero changes to it for the turbo motor. I may be wrong, but for the American market I think all of Mazda's turbo motors where a N/A version is also offered all have the same intake manifolds as the related turbo motor sans the Wankels. The B6/B6T and the older 2.2/2.2T motors from the 1st Gen 626 and Mx-6 have the same relative manifold I believe...at least it looks the same. Somebody set me straight if I'm wrong.

Salmon_Rob · Oct 10, 2005

the gtx and gtr bpt had a dual runner set up, and those were both set up for insane boost

pluto316 · Oct 10, 2005

silver03p5 said:
the gtx and gtr bpt had a dual runner set up, and those were both set up for insane boost

By insane boost you mean moderate boost, then yes.

Salmon_Rob · Oct 10, 2005

gtr can handle 28lbs on a vj 23,gtx 30 on a vj 20. gtx 400 whp on stock internals, gtr who knows. yes, moderate boost

pluto316 · Oct 10, 2005

silver03p5 said:
gtr can handle 28lbs on a vj 23,gtx 30 on a vj 20. gtx 400 whp on stock internals, gtr who knows. yes, moderate boost

(doh)

Salmon_Rob · Oct 10, 2005

im sure your msp can do that too

pluto316 · Oct 10, 2005

silver03p5 said:
im sure your msp can do that too

(rofl)

D323 · Oct 10, 2005

Aricjm15 said:
learn to read, it IS a dual runner manifold, they just tested it with the flaps closed, then the flaps open.
with the flaps closed look at how it drops off very early on, with them open it makes power much higher up. Even if it was two seperate manifolds the idea is the same, a dual runner manifold is basically TWO seperate manifolds.

sigh....

A single runner will be far larger than either runner on a dual runner manifold right?

You cannot take a dual runner manifold, test it with both runners, then test is with only one set of the runners and compare. Thats ignorant to do so. I'd bet a hundred dollars that either one of the dual runners in the dual runner manifold is smaller than the runners in a single runner manifold. So before you open your mouth again, take your own advice. www.hop.com might help you.

Mallard said:
No, not really, because one runner length is not optimal for every rpm. That's proven fact. Dual runner manifolds allow you to optimize for two rpm ranges so you can have a flatter curve. That dyno chart was to show you that dual runners do work on FI cars, since you claimed that one runner length is best. I don't have a copy of his pre-manifold dyno, but he switched to it because it gained power over the stock single runner piece.

I never once claimed that a single runner is best. I did say:

me said:
No. Usually, you dont want dual runners in a FI setup... most times you want a simple single runner.

Which is backed up by what Spooled said. A single smooth runner willl outperform in FI setups almost all of the time.

Heres another question I have for you. If dual intake runners are better tuned for a flatter curve, then why do ITB setups make so much power? Essentially they are simply a smooth short single runner.

And no Rob, you're wrong. The GTR/GTX intake manifolds are single runners. Ask Ryan if you dont believe me. Its why the GTR/GTX intake mani's are so sought after in the 1st gen crowd. (poke)

Salmon_Rob · Oct 10, 2005

http://corksport.com/store/large/agz6/BP_Turbo_Parts/J-SPEC_1_8_DOHC_GT-R_Intake_Manifold.html
youre right, gtr is single. gtx is the same as the regular bp though isnt it?

D323 · Oct 10, 2005

silver03p5 said:
http://corksport.com/store/large/agz6/BP_Turbo_Parts/J-SPEC_1_8_DOHC_GT-R_Intake_Manifold.html
youre right, gtr is single. gtx is the same as the regular bp though isnt it?

my gtx looks pretty close to that GTR one there....

I'll look tonite to make sure, but IM pretty sure there isnt anything there to regulate the opening of the butterflies.

Its ok Rob, we still <3 U.

Salmon_Rob · Oct 10, 2005

i thought gtx had vics and all. its basically an n/a bp with a turbo

D323 · Oct 10, 2005

silver03p5 said:
i thought gtx had vics and all. its basically an n/a bp with a turbo

Nope the GTX is VICS-less.

Salmon_Rob · Oct 10, 2005

hmm. i guess its single runner then. nvm i is st00pid

D323 · Oct 10, 2005

silver03p5 said:
hmm. i guess its single runner then. nvm i is st00pid

lol, its ok we forgive you.

Mazda 626 Intake Manifold = ********** Intake Manifold

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