Looks like the MS3's only competition is still a year out..

[CTGrey02]

2008 Caliber???

http://www.drivesrt.com/en/dodge/caliber/

I thought the thing was supposed to be a 2007. Something must have gotten screwed up in developement.

 

[dcomiskey]

I don't consider the Caliber in any way "competition." That thing is essentially a small truck. Not something I'd buy for track days, SRT or not. I think it's hideous.

 

[CTGrey02]

Looks like a small truck, but it's not. FWD, Similar power, 4 door hatch and compact.. Similar price point too. Can't see how it wouldn't be direct competition.

 

[SwampAss]

What's a car and what isn't a car has blurred dramatically over the last few years. To me, the Madza 3 isn't really a car either. It's something in between a standard sedan and a Matrix. Roof lines seem to move as much as hem lines as of late. The very definition of what a car is has changed. To me, the Caliber is no more or less a car than the 3. I welcome the ante being upped in the HP war (and torque being downed )
It only means more choices for us, the consumer.

 

[Hikaru9]

Yea... no matter what Dodge says (on that website), it just doesn't look like something one would take to a track.

 

[CitizenPro]

If not mistaken, it comes out March of 07

 

[TheDutchGun]

Sometimes it feels like Japanese car fanboys have an automatic hate on for every American car ever made.

 

[SwampAss]

Yea... no matter what Dodge says (on that website), it just doesn't look like something one would take to a track.

I agree. It doesn't look like something I'd want to take to the track. On the flipside, how many of us actually take that into consideration when buying a car? I didn't even think about that aspect when buying the MS3. How many people saw the Datsun 510 and thought, man! What a track car! I see a fair number of 210s and 510s out there. Evidentally, it's a solid build platform. Maybe the Caliber will prove to be the same? The high center of gravity is def a bad place to start though. I have a friend with a regular caliber. She seems to really like it.

 

[SwampAss]

Sometimes it feels like Japanese car fanboys have an automatic hate on for every American car ever made.

and you may very well have a valid point. On the flip side, lots of american car owners out there who think the same about non-american cars. There are some very good offerings from all auto makers. American, german, japanese, hell, korea is even in the mix now with some of their higher end models. To immediately dismiss a model because of the country of origin just narrows down a persons view of what cars can be.

 

[Evo Scooter]

Sometimes it feels like Japanese car fanboys have an automatic hate on for every American car ever made.

I would say it's not so much hate... as disappointment. I remember owning a Dodge Daytona back in the day and it was just what I wanted, light, quick and something that I could mess with Mustangs in. But American car companies don't make that type of car anymore.

Look at the Evo/STI battle. One would think that the US automakers would want a piece of it... Germany does (say Audi Quattro and VW R32.) 4 door AWD sporty sedan... that's what I'm looking for! US offering??? None. Yes the German offerings have a different personality, but at least it's an offering. Whether they are just as fast or not is irrelevant.

Last I heard (Correct me if I'm wrong) the Caliber SRT was going to have 205 wide front tires and 300 HP (can you say wheelspin?) pulling a much heavier vehicle and it has no traction control as far as I can tell. with the MS3 Mazda went to a great deal of trouble to make sure the car is drivable by limiting power in the first two gears.

American car makers CAN make awesome cars... So why don't they? Why does Ford not bring the European Focus here to battle the Japanese imports? If the Japanese can meet all the federal standards placed on them, why can't Ford?

Anyway, sorry for the Rant. But I wish the American car maker would build something to compete with the Evo because I would probably buy it.

As for the Caliber being direct competition we will just have to wait til it comes out to see how competitive it is.

 

[SwampAss]

FWIW, I think the EVO/STI battle is limited to the EVO and the STI. I've driven the R32 and have ridden in one for many miles. It's a very nice car, but aside from being AWD, it's def no STI/EVO. The Audi S4 is the only thing I can think of in a performance sense that matches the EVO/STI and it's 50k. I don't think any american cars have the platform for something like that. Besides, I think the market is so heavily dominated but Subaru and Mitsubishi that it's reminiscent of the Buell vs Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha/Honda battle. They can't capture a sizable piece of the market so they build their own market. American car companies make money on trucks and big family cars. They prob don't care all too much about the sports car scene other than their tried and true models. Those will sell on name alone.

 

[TheDutchGun]

I would say it's not so much hate... as disappointment. I remember owning a Dodge Daytona back in the day and it was just what I wanted, light, quick and something that I could mess with Mustangs in. But American car companies don't make that type of car anymore.

Look at the Evo/STI battle. One would think that the US automakers would want a piece of it... Germany does (say Audi Quattro and VW R32.) 4 door AWD sporty sedan... that's what I'm looking for! US offering??? None. Yes the German offerings have a different personality, but at least it's an offering. Whether they are just as fast or not is irrelevant.

Last I heard (Correct me if I'm wrong) the Caliber SRT was going to have 205 wide front tires and 300 HP (can you say wheelspin?) pulling a much heavier vehicle and it has no traction control as far as I can tell. with the MS3 Mazda went to a great deal of trouble to make sure the car is drivable by limiting power in the first two gears.

American car makers CAN make awesome cars... So why don't they? Why does Ford not bring the European Focus here to battle the Japanese imports? If the Japanese can meet all the federal standards placed on them, why can't Ford?

Anyway, sorry for the Rant. But I wish the American car maker would build something to compete with the Evo because I would probably buy it.

As for the Caliber being direct competition we will just have to wait til it comes out to see how competitive it is.

While I realise my Mustang is a totally different vehicle and set-up from the above cars mentioned, it's similar in both price range and power to all of them. In fact it's much cheaper than an STI or EVO with a 300hp baseline that runs on regular gas to boot. I will concede that my car has nowhere near the handling capabilities of really any high horsepower turbo 4-banger especially the AWD ones, but thats not why I bought it. I did have my name/deposit in for an MS3 but Mazda was taking too long to come out with any info in Canada and it was really getting on my nerves. I also realise that the current gen Mustang design is a love it or hate it style. But then again so is the Hatchback 3. There's also the rarity factor as I understand Mustangs are everywhere in the United States but you must understand that it's the opposite up here. The streets are crawling with Mazda 3s and other FWD cars.

 

[CTGrey02]

Wow, I wasn't even looking at it from a international stand point. The cars were born from the same class segment. The regular 3 is still a better looking and performing car than the normal Caliber, and it has yet to be seen how the SRT4 will behave on the road. We know the Mazda's got nothing but accolades for their well done MS3. Cars are cars. I use my supercharged mustang for what it's good for, balls the wall torque and acceleration, I use my ZX3 for beating around town - The mazda's the perfect upgrade for that. I could care less if Somalians made it. It fits my needs. The SRT4 would too in theory, Similar size, 4 door hatch and power, but I like to be more low key than something with scoops and ginormous wings on it. Too old for that crap.

 

[TheDutchGun]

Wow, I wasn't even looking at it from a international stand point. The cars were born from the same class segment. The regular 3 is still a better looking and performing car than the normal Caliber, and it has yet to be seen how the SRT4 will behave on the road. We know the Mazda's got nothing but accolades for their well done MS3. Cars are cars. I use my supercharged mustang for what it's good for, balls the wall torque and acceleration, I use my ZX3 for beating around town - The mazda's the perfect upgrade for that. I could care less if Somalians made it. It fits my needs. The SRT4 would too in theory, Similar size, 4 door hatch and power, but I like to be more low key than something with scoops and ginormous wings on it. Too old for that crap.

I was just kind of anticipating the "it's s*** because its American" comments that I could see coming.

 

[CTGrey02]

Na, I totally wasn't going for that. I hated the old SRT4 just because I thought .. and still think neon's are girls cars. It was marketed to be cute. (remember the beep beep HI! commercials from the 90's?) The new one's going to be good bang for the buck like the old one is, just more in your face due to the new platform. More useful too with the hatch and almost SUV like room inside. If you've ever seen one though, they are small cars. They just look bigger because of the styling. These two are going to be arch rivals at the track.

 

[TheDutchGun]

Na, I totally wasn't going for that. I hated the old SRT4 just because I thought .. and still think neon's are girls cars. It was marketed to be cute. (remember the beep beep HI! commercials from the 90's?) The new one's going to be good bang for the buck like the old one is, just more in your face due to the new platform. More useful too with the hatch and almost SUV like room inside. If you've ever seen one though, they are small cars. They just look bigger because of the styling. These two are going to be arch rivals at the track.

Yeah I know, they do look bigger from the outside for sure though. 300 hp in a car like that is a healthy number. I personally wouldn't want to put that much stress on the front end of the car but they wouldn't build it if it doesn't work right?

Back to your original comment though, this car really is the only direct competition to the MS3. I was just saying that power and price range wise, there are lots of options available. Just not in the turbo 4 cylinder hatch set-up.

 

[CTGrey02]

Definitely won't argue that.

 

[Donas64]

sub for later

 

[Hikaru9]

I agree. It doesn't look like something I'd want to take to the track. On the flipside, how many of us actually take that into consideration when buying a car? I didn't even think about that aspect when buying the MS3. How many people saw the Datsun 510 and thought, man! What a track car! I see a fair number of 210s and 510s out there. Evidentally, it's a solid build platform. Maybe the Caliber will prove to be the same? The high center of gravity is def a bad place to start though. I have a friend with a regular caliber. She seems to really like it.

Very true. My comment was based on its appearance alone.
Dodge says, "Its designed to dazzle and produced to performwith ride and handling characteristics that are equally comfortable on the street or track."
Who knows? It might be an awesome car to track, and I won't know until I actually drive one. If it really drives well, I'd say kudos to Dodge. I'm sure overcoming so much power in a FWD layout, plus a rather high center of gravity must be a quite a challenging task. (first) If it has the power, handling, and enough room to haul 400 dead skunks (lots of those in NoVA), what more can I ask? (well... its clunky styling might not appeal to some)

 

[ZoomZoomH]

have you guys actually rode in a Caliber? it rides more like an SUV than a car.... it's that bad