Looking at getting a MS3

[SVTtoMS3]

Well i have a SVT Focus and i have been thinking about turboing it to be pushing 12.5 pso making 295 hp and about 266 ftq...at a cost of about 7500. turbo kit is 4500 LSD is 500 stage III clutch is like 1200 ect.

In the back of my mind i have always wanted a MS3/MS6. I think it would be smarter for me to take that 7500 and take half on a down payment and put the rest in to mods. i have heard there are some problems and some things i dont understand about the MS3...one the turbo lag? for lack of a better term... is it not limited in the first couple of gears...and if i down shift i have heard it will drop the psi so i dont burn out. idk if someone could just talk me throught the hole system and how it works that would be nice


Thanks
SVTtoMS3

 

[Sacrilicious]

the problem with just dropping a turbo into a focus is that you would still have a focus...


jk...seriously, though...you would still be left without a stiff suspension and all the other handling tuning that mazda has done to the ms3. as far as the turbo lag goes: all turbos have a lag. some are less pronounced than others due to what they're made of and how much boost they provide. our turbos have a moderate amount of lag, but the thing that you're probably referring to is the torque management system that mazda put in to control the torque steer that plagues all front wheel drive cars with a lot of power. this system simply reduces the amount of boost that the car actually receives in first and second gears...and if the steering wheel is turned. this reduces the amount of tug you feel on the wheel when you accelerate heavily. this definitely slows you down, but it also allows you to stay in control of the vehicle more easily.

the ford focus would lack a lot when compared to the ms3 simply because it wasn't designed from the ground up to be a 250hp+ car. in the end, there's nothing stopping you from modding your focus if you just want to do it for the fun, but if you want a final product that runs fast and handles respectably, it's going to be VERY expensive to get the focus up to the ms3's level (well over the cost of a turbo).

 

[importgirl212]

MS3 > SVT
like he said ^ MS3 is just a waaaay better choice....there really aren't too many problems, the motor mount bolt #4 recal, and the voluntary emissions recal are the only ones that have came up so far. Me personally, I haven't had hardly any issues with mine. I absolutely love it, and its a tough vehicle to make any comparison to. Torque steer is kinda ify, because if you are on a straight launch, and DO NOT move the steering wheel, it locks to go into the direction you are headed. It's when you move the steering wheel that you end up going off course. honestly though, to really figure out if you want a speed3 you have to find a dealership that allows you to test drive....after the drive....there's no turning back the smile will be very hard to wipe off your face when you feel the boost....it really does throw you back into your seat

 

[SVTtoMS3]

u most have not driven a SVT focus before...it has one of the best suspensions i have ever driven...and it only gets better the lower u take it...to tell u the truth if i put the trubo on the svt focus i would give ur ms3 a run for its money... but im not here to argue which car is better im just trying to research a possible buy...im test driving the MS3 and the MS6 today

 

[Sacrilicious]

i have to admit that i'm suffering from fanboy syndrome here. i have not driven a svt focus, so i really should not be judging before i try it out myself, but there's something to be said about a car that was designed from the ground up to handle a 260hp+ rocket. i do not doubt that your svt could very well give us a run for our money if you were to drop a turbo into it, but i think that when you test drive the ms3/ms6, you will find that mazda's attention to detail will win through in the overall package. in the end, all we can provide you with is that we love our cars and think that you will too when you try one out! =D

if you plan to buy, i HIGHLY recommend you go to them an hour before closing at the end of the week at the end of that month and time things so that you sit down to negotiate just as they should be closing shop...then drop a "here's what you can give me if you don't want me to walk out that door" ultimatum...

 

[importgirl212]

dito sacrilicious....however, it's too far away, but the absolute best time to buy for a hell of a deal is the last business day of the year, around 7pm, so that gives you time tgo drive and come back for some serious negotiating haha

svttoms3----let us know how the drive goes for you!!!

 

[Jasonstiller]

Also, the Focus will give the MS3 a run for its money but at a cost. On top of the X amount you spent on the Svt add another 7500 to that then compare that price to the measly 22k price tag on a MS3.

 

[DaveMS307]

I owned an 03 SVT Focus and switched to the MS3 last year. There are some + and - to the MS3 from my perspective. I used to run the SVT at 4 track weekends and a couple of AutoX every year. Handling the clear winner was the SVT Focus. However, it doesn't have a limited slip which really hurt in low speed turns and on really fast sweepers where your pushing the edge of traction.
I've had people come off of track and ask what was under the hood because I could come off a curve at a higher speed than some true sports cars. For the money, I don't think anything out handles the SVT. Powerwise, my SVT was mostly stock, but had throttle body, underdrive pullies, reprogram, and ram intake. It probably made about 155 at the wheels.

The weight difference (2850 vs 3150) is very noticeable in transition turns form side to side like s-curves or slalom. The SVT responded better to weight transitions. On the track the SVT would out brake the MS3, but it reverses for street driving.

Now the good stuff for the MS3 - Power. Where the SVT might be able to carry more speed through some turns or s-curves, the MS3 comes out of a curve like a car with more power. The torque and limited slip work to make the car come off an apex like no fwd has a right to.

The MS3 is more vague on track, but once planted, does very well. The back end does like to move during turns though and it can be unsettling.

I've seen a lot of SVT Foci with power adders and none have been too reliable. But if you could get to around 240hp reliably, I think the Focus would be the better performance value. There in lies the issue though. When I weighed it all out I bought the MS3 and while I have mixed feelings about the comparison, I am very happy with the MS3.

The fit and finish on the MS3 are worlds above the SVT Focus and I do think the Focus doesn't get the respect it deserves from the anti-american car crowd.

Daily highway driving the MS3 wins hands down. The power to pass on the highway is very impressive. The handling is good, but the handling/ roughness trade off isn't as good as the SVT. It can be a bit jouncy on freeway expansion joints when compared to the SVT. The MS3 is noticeably larger on the inside and as a result is more comfortable.

Premium stereo on the SVT is far better than the premium Bose on the MS3. The Bose really doesn't have bass when compared to the audiophile option.

Gas Mileage - I average 25mpg on the same commute that I would average 29mpg in the Focus.

Insurance went up about $75 per 6 months - probably just because it was a newer car.

The MS3 is the SVT Focus Ford should have built, but didn't. My advice is to do it as long as you can live with some trade-offs.

Have more ideas, but I'm late for dinner (drive2)

PM me or ask here with any specific questions and I'd be happy to answer.

 

[Haltech]

You will never be able to tune that svt focus properly... been there, done that. get the MS3 like i did, you will be a much happier man. I got 10K for my 04 with 66,000. MS3 is a much better quality car all around, including looks. Go for it!

 

[Sacrilicious]

that was a really informative post, dave, and i am really curious what would happen if a focus SVT were to be tuned up to 240hp. the thing i wonder about is whether it would still handle as well after all the mods that are needed to get it to that point. the way it looks to me, the 300lb that our ms3 outweighs the SVT by seems to be one of the major hindrances when it comes to the handling gap, and i wonder how much of that would be lost after the SVT gets the mods needed to hit 240hp. i honestly have no idea how much weight it would add, but i am assuming that some of the advantages that the SVT enjoys (gas mileage, handling, track braking) would diminish or disappear.

in the end, if you can get the deal that haltech got (10k for your SVT), i think it would be hard to pass up a brand new ms3 for 15k-ish as compared to taking the risk of spending 7.5k minimum modding the living daylights out of your SVT... for that extra 7.5k, you will have a fully warrantied mazda with a full dose of its new car smell!

ok...i'm done indulging my inner salesman...mazda doesn't pay me to give them customers! ;o



oh, and don't forget to get a cosmic mica one...studies have shown that owners of cosmic mica ms3's are smarter, better looking, and have far better tastes than any other car owner! <--- link to be provided...

 

[DaveMS307]

that was a really informative post, dave, and i am really curious what would happen if a focus SVT were to be tuned up to 240hp. the thing i wonder about is whether it would still handle as well after all the mods that are needed to get it to that point. the way it looks to me, the 300lb that our ms3 outweighs the SVT by seems to be one of the major hindrances when it comes to the handling gap, and i wonder how much of that would be lost after the SVT gets the mods needed to hit 240hp.

Sac - good points all. When I looked at doing this to my SVT I decided it would be difficult to achieve reliable tuning at the 240 HP level. Another issue: you'd also have to add some real money to install a limited slip on the SVT to have a chance at getting the power down.

That said, I have seen SVTs putting down that kind of power on track with an LSD and they didn't change much in the way they handled.

In case it wasn't clear in the post, I do think the MS3 is a much better car overall. If you can get a good value for your trade-in, then run to the Mazda dealer and buy one before they come to their senses and start charging another $5-10k for this car(bowdown)

 

[SVTtoMS3]

well i just got done test driving the MS3 and its not a bad car....i fell that the svt would get off the line faster then the MS3 but after the turbo kits in( felt like 35 4000 rpms) the MS3 would be gone... now i know i can sell my svt for around 12.5k which would give me a lot of play room for mods to open the ms3 up...how is the tunner world to the MS3...i noticed that there is no boost gauge or anything like that...what are some web sites to look at for mods for this thing... the one i test drove was a GT and it had 33 miles on it and was 25.7k out the door

 

[DaveMS307]

well i just got done test driving the MS3 and its not a bad car....i fell that the svt would get off the line faster then the MS3 but after the turbo kits in( felt like 35 4000 rpms) the MS3 would be gone...

With the power restricted in 1st and 2nd, I agree the two cars are evenly matched until about 20-30mph. Did you get a chance to drive it up over 75? The MS3 pulls like crazy at higher speeds - I've hit 133+ on track and it's still pulling. You have to drive with restraint with this car - it will bait you to 100mph easily.

Don't know about after market stuff -trying to keep it under warranty for another year. As I'm sure you're aware, you can get Mazdaspeed parts and keep your warranty. I'm thinking hard about the CAI and exhaust for next year.

 

[Sacrilicious]

whoa...25.7k out the door is a good deal! i got just under that for mine.

here's a few things you need to know about our cars before you can launch them quickly: our turbos kick in right around 3krpms, but start losing boost really fast starting around 5500-5800 rpms. as a result, you're going to have to launch at 2500-3000 rpms to spool up the turbo. you also have to shift before redline...around 5800-6000 rpms usually. in 1st and 2nd, most people who get the really fast times seem to shift out even sooner (closer to 5000 rpms) because they want to get to 3rd gear and the full boost that it provides.

ya, it's a lot less straightforward than it should be, but every car has it's nuances, no?

 

[Sacrilicious]

good to hear that our cars compare so favorably, dave... it would be pretty embarrassing if an SVT focus could rather easily blow us out of the water with a turbo kit...=/

btw...how fast were you guys hitting 60mph and the 1/4 mile with your SVTs? i read a car and driver review and they only gave it credit for 7.8 sec and 16.1 sec, respectively on a stock car.

 

[SVTtoMS3]

i have hit 15.1 on the 1/4 in a stock svt with CAI and it was 95+ outside...i was going to go with all mazdaspeed aftermarket stuff to keep it under warranty... ya the fastest i went was 65 in thrid gear but i could tell it was wanting more...it likes the higher rpms like the svt does...i love the way the svt sings at high rpms like 55 to 65 range...o god thats love

 

[DaveMS307]

Stock - I ran a 6.9 0-60. I think that time you have is off. The worst I remember reading in an article was around 7.2-3.

It ran in the 15.7 range quarter mile (near 100 degrees). After about 30 the MS3 would run away from the SVT no problem. But it was the on track handling that made the car anyway.

 

[SVTtoMS3]

dave u said it about the track handling there will be nothing like that ever...i took a corner like 90 degree corner doing 85 and never slid out of my line or felt like i was going to slid out of it either...i will miss that car i just wise ford would make a turbo charged car...the are dumb thinking that the mustang is still there meal ticket...

 

[Sacrilicious]

ahhh...i see now...looks like the car and driver review was underestimating. ya, from what i understand, you can get into the 13s easily with just the mazdaspeed CAI + CBE ($260 + $450). from what i've read, the CAI + CBE should give you about 30hp or so. the stock car should be able to run a 14sec 1/4 after you get used to launching it. just be very careful to avoid over-revving, because like i said, we start losing our boost around 5800rpms and it really kills our power.

as far as places to find the mazdaspeed parts, you should be able to just get them straight from the dealership. the tricky part is that dealerships are required to sell at or very near MSRP (correct me if i'm wrong) if you just walk in and ask for it from the parts department. they DO get to cut you a much better deal if you go to their online parts store, though. for example, my dealership's site is: http://www.waynemazda.com/ou/wayne-mazda/index.do

as far as the warranty goes, you actually are good to go with most after-market parts. it's up to the dealership to prove that your part is what caused the failure. if you want to be safe about it, though, and use mazdaspeed parts, you only need to use the parts and do the labor yourself. both the CAI and CBE are both very doable by yourself...there are a number of how-to's available in these forums.

 

[ccann26]

i usually feel the turbo around 2800 2900 ish pull to around 5400 but it might be because of the MS intake . I love my car but i would suggest getting the motor mount replaced as soon as you get it . Don't forget the CAI (drinks)