Lewis7789 2002 Protege5 build thread (tons of pics)

[CheeseHelmet]

Audio post about my Milly;Well, I got the Alpine headunit installed into the Milly and the 5x7 Alpine speakers still sounded like poo. I got the sub/amp all hooked up and that is pretty weak too. I'm not too thrilled... I don't know car stereos so Phen came out and double checked all my wiring and such before I buttoned up anything.

My old setup in my P5 had the same head unit, Alpine speakers and an Infinity 200watt powered sub and it all sounded lovely. I had the sub settings in the HU set at 9/15 and the gain about 3/4 up on the sub amp. I generally listen to funk/jazz so I wanted some more low end frequencies at lower volume and that set up was perfect.

The new setup in the Milly is the same HU, stock front speakers (since the Alpine sound really thin and no low end) and a Pioneer 700 bridged amp with an Alpine Type-R 10" sub in a big ported box. I've got the sub control on the HU turned all the way up to 15/15 and the gain maxed out on the amp and it's barely noticeable in the music. Unless you really crank up the music then you can hear/feel it a bit. But I was hoping for more low frequencies at low volume (I don't really blast music). I double checked the polarity on the sub and everything should be hooked up correctly.

So should I ask one of my friend to try their sub enclosure? Maybe the amp is underpowered for the sub? Again, I'm not looking to rattle license plates but my silly little Infinity had more bass that this huge beast in my trunk. What gives?

I think a "700W" amp should be more than enough to power a 10" sub.

Lets troubleshoot this b****

1. Are you sure the gain knob is turned the right way?
2. Do you have the cutoff frequency set high enough?
3. Is the polarity correct on the amp->sub wires?
4. Could it be that one of the two wires heading from the HU to the amp are damaged?

Test #4 by playing some audio and disconnecting the right and the left channel (one at a time) to see if there's a change, if pulling one of the wires doesn't change the sound then it's damaged (there's a short or an open circuit in the cable). I know this isn't the safest test (leaving inputs floating) but your amp should be good enough to have protection for this kind of situation.

That's all I can think of right now... If you could give us model numbers of the exact amp and sub you're using it might help.

 

[PrinceValorum]

It was set up exactly how I had it in my car, and it worked great when I last used it. I can swing by and we can test it in my car to verify that it's not the sub and amp. I still have my car wired up, so it would just take a few minutes to re-wire the amp up to mine. It's got plenty of power from that amp, although it's not reaching the sub's max. Like I said, I've gotten my hair to vibrate with it, so it definitely puts out.

Other than that, I'm no wiring or speaker whiz. I didn't have to troubleshoot my system because luckily it worked the first time I hooked it up, so I don't have experience with that.

 

[thejeans]

Audio post about my Milly;Well, I got the Alpine headunit installed into the Milly and the 5x7 Alpine speakers still sounded like poo. I got the sub/amp all hooked up and that is pretty weak too. I'm not too thrilled... I don't know car stereos so Phen came out and double checked all my wiring and such before I buttoned up anything.

My old setup in my P5 had the same head unit, Alpine speakers and an Infinity 200watt powered sub and it all sounded lovely. I had the sub settings in the HU set at 9/15 and the gain about 3/4 up on the sub amp. I generally listen to funk/jazz so I wanted some more low end frequencies at lower volume and that set up was perfect.

The new setup in the Milly is the same HU, stock front speakers (since the Alpine sound really thin and no low end) and a Pioneer 700 bridged amp with an Alpine Type-R 10" sub in a big ported box. I've got the sub control on the HU turned all the way up to 15/15 and the gain maxed out on the amp and it's barely noticeable in the music. Unless you really crank up the music then you can hear/feel it a bit. But I was hoping for more low frequencies at low volume (I don't really blast music). I double checked the polarity on the sub and everything should be hooked up correctly.

So should I ask one of my friend to try their sub enclosure? Maybe the amp is underpowered for the sub? Again, I'm not looking to rattle license plates but my silly little Infinity had more bass that this huge beast in my trunk. What gives?

a type R should def have some thump, and a 700w amp should def power it sufficiently for you... shouldnt be too many things to go over on the sub setup, i know it sounds dumb but did you test simple things like making sure the ground was solid, solid connections with wires and amp, flipping the plugs on the rca cables at the amp... i know it sounds dumb but ive had stupid little issues like that before when wiring up a sub so its always best to check the dumb little things before racking your brain too much haha

 

[azuelke]

Single or double coil? And what ohm? I run 2 12" dvc 4 ohm Type R's wired down to 1 ohm on an MTX 1501D that isn't rated for 1 ohm, so its pushing. If you have a dvc sub, I would try to wire it down, you may have wired it up.

 

[Josue6WGN]

Should've just left your DD alone! Always gotta be messing with stuff...(lol2)

 

[THE Phen]

LOL @ Josh.

Wiring is solid.
Polarity matches all around.

I think the biggest difference between what Evan was used to and the current set up is the fact that a) It's in a bandpass box, and b) the amp power characteristics are much different. I did a quick blast with it and it does get loud, and it's still very clean. It's just not very loud at lower volumes like the Infinity Basslink is. Downside of the Basslink is that it cashes out once you get to half volume. It just doesn't get any louder. Efficiency, power curves, enclosure... Such a fun game this audio thing is.

 

[Lewis7789]

Thanks for all the help, guys. Wes, if you want to stop by sometime and we can give it a try. I'm just curious. And tonight I'm going to try a different ground location. I have it bolted to one of the rear seat belt bolts and sanded the paint to the bare metal but maybe it's not connecting or something.

It's just frustrating because I'm a bassist and have good ears. But I don't know jack about car stereos. I thought it was basically a plug and play system but maybe I need a different sub box or something. I'll take pics of everything tonight so you guys can triple check for me.

And I don't know why, but I still get a mini-boner when I see my Milly. I can't wait to get the damn motor and start DD'ing it already. Even though it won't be on the road until October. My P6 really doesn't like cold starts. She's very cranky in the morning now that's it's getting colder here in Ohio.

 

[HKPRO5]

Is your sub box rated for the sub?

 

[THE Phen]

Good call. Ideal ported enclosure size is 1.15 cu ft (for this sub). Visually, the box looks like it could be a bit bigger than that. I'll have to dig up my old port tuning equations. The box could very well be tuned at a higher or lower frequency making it not as loud as it could be.

I've been out of that game too long. Hahaha.

Regarding the 5x7's, I was telling Evan the other night about one of my theories. The Milly has a baffle that the speakers mount in. I'm thinking the reason that the 5x7's have a thin sound may be because of the volume of the baffle. The P5 doors don't have a baffle like that and essentially have a large enclosure (for lack of a better description) to work with. The Milly has a smaller "enclosure." That could be affecting the frequency response of the speaker.

Just thoughts running thru my head.

 

[PrinceValorum]

I did a quick blast with it and it does get loud, and it's still very clean. It's just not very loud at lower volumes like the Infinity Basslink is.

I think that's just the characteristic of the sub. It's been years since I researched it, but like I've said, it takes a good deal of power to start driving it, which is why it's quiet at low volumes and you turn it up just a bit more and it comes to life. It takes something like 2-300 watts RMS to even drive it. Below that, it still makes noise, but it's definitely muted. If the amp were maxed out, the sub would only be halfway to being maxed. It's quite capable, and I'm sure could really shine with a bigger amp. It was more than enough for me, though.

I have no idea about the box. I bought the whole setup, exactly like Evan has it from my friend's brother, and I guess he built the box, or got it from a friend or something. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's not for that sub, but I wasn't trying to compete or anything.

I wonder if you could just adjust it so the bass boost on either the HU, amp, or both is turned up so that it's getting enough power to drive it even at lower volumes for the rest of the speakers. I'd try to do something like that if you're not getting enough out of it at the volumes you want. If it becomes too loud when it does "turn on" you could try plugging the ports in the box with a t-shirt or something.

We'll get it sorted out, man.

I'm thinking the reason that the 5x7's have a thin sound may be because of the volume of the baffle. The P5 doors don't have a baffle like that and essentially have a large enclosure (for lack of a better description) to work with. The Milly has a smaller "enclosure." That could be affecting the frequency response of the speaker.

I've got baffles on the 5.25's in my front doors. They were little foam cups designed to protect the speakers from water in the inside of the door and were supposed to provide a bit more bass or something. I got them mainly for the protection, but I didn't have any problems with mine sounding thin. Maybe they're designed for that size? It's been several years since I've thought about car audio, lol.

 

[jri4]

I think Evan's just a music snob. Ha! So there!

j/k bro-chacho.....






WWWWHHHHHAAAAATTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

 

[azuelke]

If you are looking for tight bass and sql, go sealed. Ported will be looser, but will also be louder. Take your pick.

 

[Lewis7789]

Haha, Chippy, I am a music snob. I'm the first to admit it.

I'll do some tinkering this weekend with the stereo and see if I can get it sorted out.

Cres, thanks for that link. I might go that route next year. I completey gutted my EG then used 4-5 cans of spray bedliner on the inside. It actually worked pretty well to dampen the sound. And was cheap to boot. But I don't mind spending $50 for a gallon of that Second Skin and spraying that in there.

Before the bedliner, obviously;

I miss this little car though. It was slow as piss, but handled great.

And it looks like Ryan will probably buy my seats (I forgot to get pics for you, man.) then I'll buy some Corbeau's or a good deal on some used fixed back racing seats, buy the side brackets and have my boy Josh weld them to the floor. After the Second Skin is sprayed in, of course. I like to sit upright like a nerd, even while daily driving, and I'm 6-1" and my helmet was almost touching the roof so the lower seats will help out a lot. Plus they are so comfy! I'm excite. Still gotta figure out a good harness and harness bar solution though. Or else I'll just get some of those G-lock thangs and rock the OEM 3 points. I love feeling strapped in with 4 points, but I want to stay safe and legal.

 

[magnumP5]

Is the goal to have a car that's as light a possible? If so, I'm questioning this "second skin" stuff. I mean, why go through the hassle of removing the interior just to add weight back on in the form of a spray? I get it will still be lighter and be less loud but if you're going all out, why not go all out? I just think of the countless hours and bags of dry ice some guys go through to remove all that factory crap and here you are adding it, LOL!

 

[fishdonotbounce]

Wow Evan I never saw your old Civic. I am in love with that thing. That was the exact car I wanted as my first car and yours was done so well.

 

[Teeson]

If you are looking for tight bass and sql, go sealed. Ported will be looser, but will also be louder. Take your pick.

Untrue, ported can be just as "tight" as sealed, and it takes less power. The trick is building the box/port to what the sub requires.

did you ever get your sub thing sorted evan? stupid question but does the amp have a low frequency cutoff? and that sub should be more than adequate..

 

[ajkulish]

Wow Evan I never saw your old Civic. I am in love with that thing. That was the exact car I wanted as my first car and yours was done so well.

+1 to everything in that post.

 

[azuelke]

Untrue, ported can be just as "tight" as sealed, and it takes less power. The trick is building the box/port to what the sub requires.

BS. A ported spec box will never be as tight as a spec sealed box.

 

[wildcard26]

BS. A ported spec box will never be as tight as a spec sealed box.

This is a subjective discussion that is being engaged. I am into DIY Home Theater as my other hobby and what I have found in my researches that it all depends on the T/S Parameters of the driver and the type of enclosure it is applied. You may apply the same driver to an enclosure that it can use and may get less than suitable performance than if another driver was used in the same enclosure. At the end of it all there is no real measure for tightness and other preferences so it all comes down to what pleases your ear. JM2C.

 

[azuelke]

This is a subjective discussion that is being engaged.

True, but I competed for 7 years. I know some things.

To get back on topic, try anything different yet Lewis?