Just got flashed

[SilversunMSP]

This reflash absolutely blows. We should get a petition (or class action case) going to get mazda to do a better job. The car is definately slower in every gear.

 

[Lil_vicious559]

I just got it done last week, I also feel that my car is slower. The boost gauge reads 15psi up to about 4500 rpm and then it drops to round 12 or so, I don't remember that ever before, it only used to drop off after 57-5900 rpm. It pulls slower in every gear, even in sixth in the highway its slower. I am pissed i want it back to normal, if i wanted a focus i would have bought one.

Yeah the Boost falls off after 5500rpms, not 4500. Something is Definately wrong! Sounds like your car is Alot slower.


I Don't think nothing can be done now since the Reflash has been done. My 6th gear pulls hard on the freeway. from 100-120 6th pulls hard.

 

[Doubleawill]

Yes!!! This reflash really does suck. I felt the power loss immediately. I probably wont be able to beat my freinds 240sx anymore. (chair)Damit and he just got it running right with the bigger turbo. He really want's a rematch since we call him second place now!(first)

 

[dutchbuffalo]

If I get the emissions recall done is that the same as this reflash everyone is complaining about ? If it is I'm not going to get it done.

 

[Lil_vicious559]

If I get the emissions recall done is that the same as this reflash everyone is complaining about ? If it is I'm not going to get it done.

Regardless what you do to the car. They will Reflash it without notifying you at all. Believe me!!

your best bet is to not take the car in at all, unless something is really Fuc%^% up on your MS6.

 

[LBV]

Mazda is probably de-tuning the engine due to the rash of blown motors???

 

[dutchbuffalo]

can they flash my car without telling me if I bring it in for something else ? If they try and do that with me they will have one hell of a fight on their hands.

 

[Lil_vicious559]

can they flash my car without telling me if I bring it in for something else ? If they try and do that with me they will have one hell of a fight on their hands.

i am good friends with the GM here at lithia Mazda. He told me if i brought the car in, chances are the (Service department) will reflash the ECU. My suggestion is, its a No brainer......SAVE THE SPEED OF THE CAR AND DON'T DO IT!! .............LOL

But yes they will reflash it without telling you. Trust me, you won't even know until you get the car back and feel the power loss(hand)

 

[3+5]

I had the reflash done way back in february, the last time the car saw the inside of the dealer. I know this is the case, cause when I got my recall notice, it was to inform me that the recall had been done. I kinda think you guys are a bit paranoid about losing power, all everyone asks is whether it's slower. When I got the car from the dealer after the reflash, it seemed to me to be faster, maybe louder as well. It went in due to a shutter valve CEL, and my car has no mods. It also gets 24 mpg per tankful however I drive it, and consistent 28mpg doing 85 from Mn to Ct. I checked every fillup, and was trying to make time. I got almost 30mpg in an area of heavy construction (=slow, like 50 for MILES).
I haven't seen any dyno runs or timeslips to back up the power loss. It really doesn't seem like it to me, so I tend to believe it's not reality.
The way I see it, butt dyno experts are discouraging everyone from getting the reflash, which in actuality could be a bad thing. Meanwhile their cars have been flashed so they won't suffer a possible loss in reliability. Only way to resolve this: Next guy who gets the reflash needs to dyno before & after.
At least, a day at the drags before & after. SOME kind of measurement that's not subjective. You guys are telling me you can feel 274 vs 270 hp? ...and maybe a CAI really DOES make more power in a stock civic.

I also refuse to call a couple mods gone bad a RASH of blown engines, but that's a different argument.

 

[Lil_vicious559]

I had the reflash done way back in february, the last time the car saw the inside of the dealer. I know this is the case, cause when I got my recall notice, it was to inform me that the recall had been done. I kinda think you guys are a bit paranoid about losing power, all everyone asks is whether it's slower. When I got the car from the dealer after the reflash, it seemed to me to be faster, maybe louder as well. It went in due to a shutter valve CEL, and my car has no mods. It also gets 24 mpg per tankful however I drive it, and consistent 28mpg doing 85 from Mn to Ct. I checked every fillup, and was trying to make time. I got almost 30mpg in an area of heavy construction (=slow, like 50 for MILES).
I haven't seen any dyno runs or timeslips to back up the power loss. It really doesn't seem like it to me, so I tend to believe it's not reality.
The way I see it, butt dyno experts are discouraging everyone from getting the reflash, which in actuality could be a bad thing. Meanwhile their cars have been flashed so they won't suffer a possible loss in reliability. Only way to resolve this: Next guy who gets the reflash needs to dyno before & after.
At least, a day at the drags before & after. SOME kind of measurement that's not subjective. You guys are telling me you can feel 274 vs 270 hp? ...and maybe a CAI really DOES make more power in a stock civic.

I also refuse to call a couple mods gone bad a RASH of blown engines, but that's a different argument.

There was a recall back in February march of this year, I remember that one. There has been another recall during the august-September time. For the CEL and the Reflash.

I don't know what your talking about?? Civics adding more power with a CAI. Have you seen the DYNO's, the MS6/MS3 puts down with a CAI.

Basically A Civici SI with I/H/E. = a CAI for the MS3/6

 

[3+5]

Just saying it was a subjective call to make concerning power loss after reflash. CAI on stock civic was just an analogy to the butt dyno power loss calls guys are making. What I meant was that stock Civic owner's butt dynos probably tell them they make more power with a CAI... The stock intake setup is probably not much difference, if any. I never mentioned anything about a CAI on a MS6.

Here's the fact: My car lit a CEL in Feb-Mar 07. Took it in, they changed the swirl valve & reflashed. Dealer told me they had the kit on the shelf. My recall notification says the present recall has been done, & the dealer says all recalls & TSB's are complied with. I haven't had the car serviced since february, so I must have got the present reflash in Feb-Mar, due to the swirl valve problem. They obviously have to build case history before recalling for a defect/reflash. Mine must have been one of the first to fail. They can call this an emissions-related reflash all day, but it's so obviously tied to the swirl valve failure.

Better to see before/after proof of some kind before everyone gets their panties in a wad. Show me PROOF, I'll b**** too that we have less power.

But I wouldn't be warning off other owners about the reflash without the proof to back it up. If I didn't have the flash done already, I would think hard before listening to butt-dyno post-flash evaluations and not getting a factory recommended adjustment, which is what the reflash really is.

Like I said, my butt dyno was opposite from the majority on this one, I thought it had more power after, but my swirl valve was failed/defective so it could have just been I felt more power relative to that. I didn't notice a power loss or any driveability issue when I got the CEL, but I did try to go easy just in case. My car seems to have been extremely consistent when it comes to performance.

 

[Lil_vicious559]

Just saying it was a subjective call to make concerning power loss after reflash. CAI on stock civic was just an analogy to the butt dyno power loss calls guys are making. What I meant was that stock Civic owner's butt dynos probably tell them they make more power with a CAI... The stock intake setup is probably not much difference, if any. I never mentioned anything about a CAI on a MS6.

I'm can see if you upgraded from a civic, corolla or Sentra. Then yes i can say a butt dyno can be referred. You can tell the difference driving 13sec car's, if power has been loss. Everyone on here has done the recent flash on the Speed6's and Whether or not you get the CEL flash done, they will do the Shutter valves REFLASH. Which defects the cars power wise.

Here's the fact: Better to see before/after proof of some kind before everyone gets their panties in a wad. Show me PROOF, I'll b**** too that we have less power.

due the current reflash on your speed6, then you come back on here and tell me if you lost power!!

But I wouldn't be warning off other owners about the reflash without the proof to back it up. If I didn't have the flash done already, I would think hard before listening to butt-dyno post-flash evaluations and not getting a factory recommended adjustment, which is what the reflash really is.

Everyone notices power loss. I'm sure you can tell a difference in power after driving the car for so long. These car's aren't civic's, or integra's

Like I said, my butt dyno was opposite from the majority on this one, I thought it had more power after, but my swirl valve was failed/defective so it could have just been I felt more power relative to that. I didn't notice a power loss or any driveability issue when I got the CEL, but I did try to go easy just in case. My car seems to have been extremely consistent when it comes to performance.

Your powerband feels more linear like a V6 rather than the raw Power TURBO. That's why if feels quicker...

 

[mal_tiempo]

Your powerband feels more linear like a V6 rather than the raw Power TURBO. That's why if feels quicker...

And is it not quicker? Just because you don't get the smack of the turbo coming on doesn't mean it's slower OR has less power. Proof please. Run someone before and after, or something. Anything besides just feelings.

 

[Lil_vicious559]

And is it not quicker? Just because you don't get the smack of the turbo coming on doesn't mean it's slower OR has less power. Proof please. Run someone before and after, or something. Anything besides just feelings.

Sorry there not feelings just facts. You go to your nearest dealership and ask them if they will REFLASH your car. "They will tell you that it improves the cars MPG and prevents the CEL light from coming on and that it makes the Car quicker:bs:. What they are actually doing is retarding the timing and making the car lean out more fuel running richer while power isn't developing Because of the Boost drop after 5500-6K. Making the power feel more linear.

I'm not saying that its causing the car to be a turtle, just that power that's there isn't freeing up because of the Restrictive exhaust system and the boost drop we get after 5500-6K.

My speed6 hits boost at 23-2500K and holds strong all the way till 5500-6K. What I'm feeling is the car's Raw TURBO power rather than the Accord V6 linear smooth feeling that everyone is talking about.

 

[3+5]

due the current reflash on your speed6, then you come back on here and tell me if you lost power!!

My recall notification says the present recall has been done, & the dealer says all recalls & TSB's are complied with. I haven't had the car serviced since february, so I must have got the present reflash in Feb-Mar, due to the swirl valve problem.

I have had the current reflash since February when the swirl valve popped a CEL.

My other car is a 74 Corvette with 350hp 400ft/lb. I have had turbo cars. I'm 50, and been a motorhead all my life. I have the tendency to think analytically since my background is jet fighter maintenance. I have autocrossed this car since the reflash. I felt no power loss, nothing different at all after the reflash. The tendency here in this particular community is to assume that Mazda is somehow messing up our cars. It's a clear prejudice, demonstrated by so many people's decision to not want the reflash based solely on butt-dyno results that are swayed by the preconcieved notion that any factory adjustment to the program will be bad. :bs:

What they are actually doing is retarding the timing and making the car lean out more fuel running richer while power isn't developing Because of the Boost drop after 5500-6K. Making the power feel more linear.

What's the source of this info?

What I'm saying is let's see some dyno results before & after, or at least dragstrip timeslips. P-R-O-O-F.

 

[Lil_vicious559]

What's the source of this info?

What I'm saying is let's see some dyno results before & after, or at least dragstrip timeslips. P-R-O-O-F.

I guess you are not to familiar with the car's capabilities and the boost drop we get after 5500-6K.

Take ur MS6 out for a spin and nail it all the way to redline in any gear. After 1st and 2nd gear around 6k, your going to feel the car's power fall flat on its face. Boost drops down to about 4-5psi. Because of the shutter plate valves. The car our ECU isn't reading enough air to maximize and hold boost long enough to redline Because of the Shutter plates.

Why do you think people are getting CP-E's EMS and PG's fuel pump system.

But back on topic. The car will be reflashed wether you take your car in for any service.

I take it you don't have the recent flash on your speed6, i can understand your argument. But at the same time, Mazdaspeed dealership's are doing the reflash probably because of detonation timing.

 

[mal_tiempo]

You didn't answer his question. How do you know exactly what is being done to the cars during the reflash? Is there a dealer bulletin detailing what's being done? Right now, all you're going by is the seat of your pants, and I don't trust that. I've already had mine done, and it feels like a V6, almost G35-like now. G35 coupes are still pretty quick, so I'm not complaining, I've ridden in a couple stock ones.

I'm slowly gathering from your posts that you're just against whatever Mazda does to our cars at the dealership, or else you wouldn't come off as irrational as you do now.

 

[Lil_vicious559]

You didn't answer his question. How do you know exactly what is being done to the cars during the reflash?

1.) I'm good friends with the GM.
2.) I bought his Grand touring edition Speed6 with 500miles on it for 26K
3.) I already asked when I stopped by the dealership to see what was going on 2months ago.

So basically i got the letter in the mail 2-3months ago about the Mazdaspeed 6 with certain vin #'s to bring the Speed6 in and getting the recall done for the CEL light and the shutter plate valve problem.

I asked and said will the (service Department) do the Reflash without my approval and he said 70% of the time when there's a recall they will get it done if the car is brought in to get Service done.

Is there a dealer bulletin detailing what's being done? Right now, all you're going by is the seat of your pants, and I don't trust that. I've already had mine done, and it feels like a V6, almost G35-like now. G35 coupes are still pretty quick, so I'm not complaining, I've ridden in a couple stock ones.

You can trust who you want. I'm not here holding a gun to your head making you decide which route to take. But it looks like you already did the flash and now your power feels more linear like a G35 as you say. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm slowly gathering from your posts that you're just against whatever Mazda does to our cars at the dealership, or else you wouldn't come off as irrational as you do now.

I'm not against anything. When the time comes for me to take in my Speed6 to get service done i will. But as it stands right now, I'll take my chances and leave it the way it is. It's almost a garage queen now.

 

[3+5]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3+5 View Post
What's the source of this info?

What I'm saying is let's see some dyno results before & after, or at least dragstrip timeslips. P-R-O-O-F.

I guess you are not to familiar with the car's capabilities and the boost drop we get after 5500-6K.

Take ur MS6 out for a spin and nail it all the way to redline in any gear. After 1st and 2nd gear around 6k, your going to feel the car's power fall flat on its face. Boost drops down to about 4-5psi. Because of the shutter plate valves. The car our ECU isn't reading enough air to maximize and hold boost long enough to redline Because of the Shutter plates.

Why do you think people are getting CP-E's EMS and PG's fuel pump system.

But back on topic. The car will be reflashed wether you take your car in for any service.

I take it you don't have the recent flash on your speed6, i can understand your argument. But at the same time, Mazdaspeed dealership's are doing the reflash probably because of detonation timing.

So, since there's no answer, what I get is that you don't know your source, and just guessing what the reflash is doing. It seems you're also convinced that my car hasn't had the reflash, despite the fact that I've posted it has been done several times.
I checked at the dealer, they said ALL RECALLS ARE COMPLETED.

I know all about the high RPM boost drop.

Why do you think people are getting CP-E's EMS and PG's fuel pump system.

Don't try to BS me with that crap. We all know why those components are being installed. Guys are modding for more than stock power. Bigger turbos require tuning and more fuel delivery. They want to eliminate the stock engine control that drops the boost at high RPM, an understandable MOD. The boost drop under stock ECU operation is not a defect, it's a system control.

From 4907H: "What is the problem? The monitor function used to detect Short Fuel Trim maximum threshold strategy is inoperative."


So tell me, when did this become a recall over the "Shutter plate valve"? It's a fault detection circuit that is not capable of detecting a fault that could occur.

Think it's a plot to slow the cars down without us knowing it, disguised as a harmless emissions failure detection thing?

Also from 4907H: "To insure your full protection under the emission warranty made applicable to your vehicle by State or Federal Law, and your right to participate in future recalls, it is recommended you have your vehicle or engine serviced as soon as possible. Failure to do so could be determined as lack of proper maintenance of your vehicle. Also, your vehicle may fail a state or local emission inspection if this recall is not completed.

Go ahead, take your chances. I'm sure the GM will step right in and back you up when Mazda declares you didn't maintain your car properly and voided your emissions warranty. Me? I'll opt to keep my MS6 running correctly, and not give in to foolish paranoia about power losses every time Mazda reflashes my ECU WITHOUT SOLID PROOF THAT IT OCCURS.

 

[chrisyng]

He doesn't know what is being done to the cars.. and i highly doubt his friend knows specifics either..GM of a dealership or not..
True, you are not "holding a gun" to people's heads regarding getting the flash done or not..however by the tone of your posts and replies to people which border on being condescending towards them you certainly are not coming off as being too credible in my eyes..

You offer explanations for why the car behaves the way it does in a tone like it's written in stone.. however there are so many flaws in your explanations it makes it sound like you just took the popular internet theories people have and made them your own, however misinterpreting them at the same time..

How does this quote from you make sense?

they are actually doing is retarding the timing and making the car lean out more fuel running richer while power isn't developing Because of the Boost drop after 5500-6K. Making the power feel more linear.

You have no proof timing is being retarded ... You then talk about the car leaning out fuel, but also running richer? that doesn't make sense ... Actually, by retarding ignition timing, your egt's will rise.. this will actually cause the turbo to spool quicker... Not that it matters, since the flash will NOT affect your timing ...

in your next post, you blame the loss of boost on the shutter valve.. strange, I thought the drive by wire throttle plates were responsible for limiting boost at higher rpms .. you do realize that throttle plates and shutter valves are 2 diffrent items right?

The recall was also issued for the MS3's, CX-7's, and 4cyl normally aspirated mazda 6's.. you do not hear them complaining about loss of power due to the flash .. why would they include the n/a mazda 6's in the same recall if this flash was ment to detune the DISI motor from blowing up? Unless you belive that this is just a smokescreen to keep mazda from having to admit that there is a problem with the DISI motor ...

There is NO conspiracy going on for mazda to purposely reduce ms6's power to keep the motor reliable.. there's just alot of fear mongering going on by mostly uninformed individuals who are creating all sorts of scenarios to try and explain something they can not..