I have resisted the temptation to drive the ST. I am sure I would like. If Ford would offer it with a true LSD, I might have to take one for a drive. I don't autocross, but I do have an appreciation for what you are saying. I do get slip on the track on tighter corners and it is really easy to induce slip in a parking lot. Any thoughts on reaching out to Hollis? I was wondering how he was able to reduce or minimize it. Like I said, I know nothing about auto-x, but I figure Andy resolved most of the slip issue to win his class at nationals a few years ago. He generally seems willing to share info. Just a thought. Best of luck next year.
jasyatz build thread
- Thread starter jasyatz
- Start date
Andy has his entire build on his FB page. he ran Toyos which stick a bit better than the Rivals and had fairly smooth pavement at nationals and custom doubles in the rear. Plus he's Hollis...so that helps. He also brought a fully prepped car to run in a first year class that was just getting started. Andres has not complained about wheel spin so I'm thinking a lot of it is tire related. But since Andrs has a similar setup to Andys, I'm wondering if that's why Andrs car is that quick...
flatlander937
Member
- :
- '11 Mazda2 Sport
9in stroke shock is about 24" long.
Those should work very well. I'm not ready to plunk down $750 for rear shocks just yet though. I'm sure if a trip to Lincoln was in the cards for next year, I'd get them but for right now, we run locally on a sealed asphalt lot and it's a bit lumpy so super stiff is not the way to go, but a bit more compression to force the rear to grip would be nice.
flatlander937
Member
- :
- '11 Mazda2 Sport
I was thinking about it today, do you think your front grip problems may be from the soft rear rates? That's the biggest difference between you and Andres + Andy Hollis aside from tires. Softer rear roll stiffness = more transfer off the inside front tire.
excellent point and I was just discussing this exact thing with my buddy earlier today. I have 600# rear springs ready to go in for this weekend. I figured with a giant rear bar and the big front bar would stiffen up the car and negate the push caused by adding a front bar. All the rear bar did was make the car miserable on the highway and prematurely lift the inside rear wheel everywhere. Car had so much rotation, is undrivable in temps less than 50F. Even with the TCS on I was getting very sideways. So this weekend will be 550F 600R big front bar, no rear bar and use pressures and rear shocks to control balance. I can do a spring swap in 5 min now so if this fails, I can at least try to salvage the day.
But I think you are correct on avoiding rear transfer. I've been looking at it the wrong way. I don't need to increase front stiffness, I need to prevent rear from loading up and lifting the inside front wheel. There's not a lot of droop in the front struts to begin with, and burying the outside rear tire up in the wheel well with a softer spring certainly gives the weight no where else to go. in theory it sounds like that's the fix. Thanks I'll report back Sunday or Monday.
But I think you are correct on avoiding rear transfer. I've been looking at it the wrong way. I don't need to increase front stiffness, I need to prevent rear from loading up and lifting the inside front wheel. There's not a lot of droop in the front struts to begin with, and burying the outside rear tire up in the wheel well with a softer spring certainly gives the weight no where else to go. in theory it sounds like that's the fix. Thanks I'll report back Sunday or Monday.
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Great shot if the car with the 550/600 combo with no rear bar and RB front bar. No rear lift and turn in was very good. Still need the front shocks done to improve overall front grip as it still has a late corner push and wheel spin, but loving the toss-ability of the car now.
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Video of today's quick run at the final points event for 2014. Bunch of mistakes all over, but felt great. Mistakes were mostly turning IN on stuff due to the exact steering response whence the tires started working. https://vimeo.com/111315328
Happy Thanksgiving! Looking back over the last 2 seasons with this car, I've been very pleased. It's done everything I've asked of it and along the way collected some Mazda cash from the Tour and a set of BFG tires.
I've reached a crossroads though, and after a few weeks of reflecting on the past 20 months, I actually thought about a Fiesta ST. I got into some serious discussion regarding the ST at a dealer, but thought back to how happy I'd be with a softly sprung (although much quicker) version of this chassis. So I reached out to a few friends. A couple of guys I respect and value their input regarding chassis design and setup. They convinced me that in order to step up my game as an autocrosses, I need to buck up some cash and play with the big boys.....
So...
The Mazda 2 stays, BUT the Bilsteins are for sale.
It's an absolutely fabulously engineered kit. Rides great on the street, and performs well(with some tweaks) on a regionally competitive Autocross car. I've out almost 2 years into making the Bilsteins work as good as they can, but I've exceeded the design goal of these struts with the proposed spring rate changes I need to run to make a no compromise STF competitor. I've consulted with a couple of chassis engineers and am just going to throw a bucket load of cash at the car to make it the best it can be.
On to the For Sale stuff..
A complete Bilstein Autocross coilover kit that is 20 months old. The kit has never seen a winter on the car, but the finish on the aluminum front struts is dull. Needs a polish to brighten it up. The stickers on the front struts have been rubbed off (tire clearance issues) but otherwise in great condition. Rears were on the car for only 6 months, and then swapped out for the KYB AGX which performed much better at controlling the rear of the car.
I'm looking to get $400 shipped in the Lower 48 for everything..Here's the included parts:
Front Bilsteins with stock dust boots and Bilstein Blue springs (285#) with modified stock struts hats installed (The modified hats have a camber correction kit installed which give a fixed -1.0 gain to front camber) No slipping of bolts here. You can add a set of Ingalls Bolts to get the front camber near -3.5, but I ran the stock bolts in the bottom and a 14mm in the top to max camber at -2.5. Spring perches have been machined to accept 2.25" linear rate coilover springs which can be added by you (or I can source them and install them for you with tenders and spacers) Springs and tenders are additional $120( for Used 6" long 2.25" linear rate springs). You can pick the rate, but I wouldn't go over 400# or you'll exceed the Bilstein valving specs.
Rear Bilstein shocks with dust boots and bump stops, I don't have an extra set of rear upper mounts, but can get a pair for you for an extra $50. so they'll be a complete easy bolt in job.
also included A pair of KYB AGX Focus rear shocks. these share dust boots and bump stops with the Bilsteins, but THESE are the shocks I'd use on the rear of the car with the Bilstein fronts. I used these with the Bilstein stock springs (230#) with the rear height adjusters and the linear rate Ground Control Eibach springs (380#). I honestly preferred the 380 in the rear with the KYBs. You can choose either setup or try them both to see what you like because BOTH sets of rear shocks and rear springs are included for the $400 ... Rear springs are the perfect height and require 3 zip ties to hold them in. No adjusters needed. I had these installed all summer (before trying the 600s in the rear) and no issues what so ever.
The front dust boots are currently NOT installed and would have to be sourced before shipping.. If you want to assemble the front struts yourself, or prefer not having strut boots (the boots do NOT fit with the linear 2.25# springs), I can take off $25. Other than that, you are getting $1200 worth of stuff (all bought brand new so I'm factoring in a ton of depreciation here) for 30% of its original value.
Sure I'm taking a loss on this setup, but it was worth it. I'm passing it on to someone who will install it and appreciate it. It's a great "bit of kit" as my buddy Michael says, and hopefully you'll enjoy it and have the same success with it as I did.
Jeff
I've reached a crossroads though, and after a few weeks of reflecting on the past 20 months, I actually thought about a Fiesta ST. I got into some serious discussion regarding the ST at a dealer, but thought back to how happy I'd be with a softly sprung (although much quicker) version of this chassis. So I reached out to a few friends. A couple of guys I respect and value their input regarding chassis design and setup. They convinced me that in order to step up my game as an autocrosses, I need to buck up some cash and play with the big boys.....
So...
The Mazda 2 stays, BUT the Bilsteins are for sale.
It's an absolutely fabulously engineered kit. Rides great on the street, and performs well(with some tweaks) on a regionally competitive Autocross car. I've out almost 2 years into making the Bilsteins work as good as they can, but I've exceeded the design goal of these struts with the proposed spring rate changes I need to run to make a no compromise STF competitor. I've consulted with a couple of chassis engineers and am just going to throw a bucket load of cash at the car to make it the best it can be.
On to the For Sale stuff..
A complete Bilstein Autocross coilover kit that is 20 months old. The kit has never seen a winter on the car, but the finish on the aluminum front struts is dull. Needs a polish to brighten it up. The stickers on the front struts have been rubbed off (tire clearance issues) but otherwise in great condition. Rears were on the car for only 6 months, and then swapped out for the KYB AGX which performed much better at controlling the rear of the car.
I'm looking to get $400 shipped in the Lower 48 for everything..Here's the included parts:
Front Bilsteins with stock dust boots and Bilstein Blue springs (285#) with modified stock struts hats installed (The modified hats have a camber correction kit installed which give a fixed -1.0 gain to front camber) No slipping of bolts here. You can add a set of Ingalls Bolts to get the front camber near -3.5, but I ran the stock bolts in the bottom and a 14mm in the top to max camber at -2.5. Spring perches have been machined to accept 2.25" linear rate coilover springs which can be added by you (or I can source them and install them for you with tenders and spacers) Springs and tenders are additional $120( for Used 6" long 2.25" linear rate springs). You can pick the rate, but I wouldn't go over 400# or you'll exceed the Bilstein valving specs.
Rear Bilstein shocks with dust boots and bump stops, I don't have an extra set of rear upper mounts, but can get a pair for you for an extra $50. so they'll be a complete easy bolt in job.
also included A pair of KYB AGX Focus rear shocks. these share dust boots and bump stops with the Bilsteins, but THESE are the shocks I'd use on the rear of the car with the Bilstein fronts. I used these with the Bilstein stock springs (230#) with the rear height adjusters and the linear rate Ground Control Eibach springs (380#). I honestly preferred the 380 in the rear with the KYBs. You can choose either setup or try them both to see what you like because BOTH sets of rear shocks and rear springs are included for the $400 ... Rear springs are the perfect height and require 3 zip ties to hold them in. No adjusters needed. I had these installed all summer (before trying the 600s in the rear) and no issues what so ever.
The front dust boots are currently NOT installed and would have to be sourced before shipping.. If you want to assemble the front struts yourself, or prefer not having strut boots (the boots do NOT fit with the linear 2.25# springs), I can take off $25. Other than that, you are getting $1200 worth of stuff (all bought brand new so I'm factoring in a ton of depreciation here) for 30% of its original value.
Sure I'm taking a loss on this setup, but it was worth it. I'm passing it on to someone who will install it and appreciate it. It's a great "bit of kit" as my buddy Michael says, and hopefully you'll enjoy it and have the same success with it as I did.
Jeff
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Well. Been a while so heres the late winter update.
After the Bilsteins sold, I was on the fence about the direction I wanted to either take this car, or try something else. Im giving the 2 another go. This time contacted BC Racing North America (through Rodrigo Fonts recommendation) and man am I glad I did. These guys know their s***. I told them my objectives with the car, and what I was looking for. They asked a few specific questions regarding previous setups I've had and what I liked and didn't about what I had. Low and behold, a few weeks later and I had a custom valved and sprung set of BCs coilovers in the garage. Not only are these things pretty, but they are serviceable by techs right here in the U.S, Should I need to vary from what I've got. Although there was a bit of compromise going with a single dual adjustment range(single knob controls rebound and compression adjustment) the shocks are valved for the cars weight and the spring weight. Any changes in spring weight (up to 2K stiffer or softer) do not require a revalve but just a quick knob adjustment. Or if you want to over shock or under shock the spring, adjust away. They provided me with a basic setup recommendation and alignment specs also. Where they thought would be best. Holy crap that's service.
So.....yesterday was the first day since November it wasnt snowing or below freezing. I pulled the stock struts out and a little over 2 hours later, the BC stuff was in. Ride heights were perfectly set right out of the box! Just amazing. The ride? You can feel it being more firm, but I checked the spring part numbers twice to make sure they sent me the right stuff. You'd never believe the car has a combined total of 2100 lbs of spring weight in it. It rides great. Doesn't beat you up, but the turn in is just fantastic.
The one recommendation they had that I wasn't sure of was disconnecting the front bar. I just put it in and was really skeptical the front roll rate would be too soft. Wow! Even with the bar disconnected, roll is very minimal and seems to put the power down now a bit better. Now this is on the street with the stock all seasons so I'll report back after the Hankooks/rivals go back on next Month.
I can't thank Rodrigo enough for his recommendation. Although I paid a bit more than Font sells them for, I'm totally sold on them. Well worth the money and a hell of a lot easier than trying to make the Koni doubles fit. Whether they work better during a run in anger, I'm hopeful but at least I'm not chasing what ifs anymore.
Here's to another season in STF. The car is the bests it been yet, and last year it was pretty darned good.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
After the Bilsteins sold, I was on the fence about the direction I wanted to either take this car, or try something else. Im giving the 2 another go. This time contacted BC Racing North America (through Rodrigo Fonts recommendation) and man am I glad I did. These guys know their s***. I told them my objectives with the car, and what I was looking for. They asked a few specific questions regarding previous setups I've had and what I liked and didn't about what I had. Low and behold, a few weeks later and I had a custom valved and sprung set of BCs coilovers in the garage. Not only are these things pretty, but they are serviceable by techs right here in the U.S, Should I need to vary from what I've got. Although there was a bit of compromise going with a single dual adjustment range(single knob controls rebound and compression adjustment) the shocks are valved for the cars weight and the spring weight. Any changes in spring weight (up to 2K stiffer or softer) do not require a revalve but just a quick knob adjustment. Or if you want to over shock or under shock the spring, adjust away. They provided me with a basic setup recommendation and alignment specs also. Where they thought would be best. Holy crap that's service.
So.....yesterday was the first day since November it wasnt snowing or below freezing. I pulled the stock struts out and a little over 2 hours later, the BC stuff was in. Ride heights were perfectly set right out of the box! Just amazing. The ride? You can feel it being more firm, but I checked the spring part numbers twice to make sure they sent me the right stuff. You'd never believe the car has a combined total of 2100 lbs of spring weight in it. It rides great. Doesn't beat you up, but the turn in is just fantastic.
The one recommendation they had that I wasn't sure of was disconnecting the front bar. I just put it in and was really skeptical the front roll rate would be too soft. Wow! Even with the bar disconnected, roll is very minimal and seems to put the power down now a bit better. Now this is on the street with the stock all seasons so I'll report back after the Hankooks/rivals go back on next Month.
I can't thank Rodrigo enough for his recommendation. Although I paid a bit more than Font sells them for, I'm totally sold on them. Well worth the money and a hell of a lot easier than trying to make the Koni doubles fit. Whether they work better during a run in anger, I'm hopeful but at least I'm not chasing what ifs anymore.
Here's to another season in STF. The car is the bests it been yet, and last year it was pretty darned good.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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deadlydave
Member
- :
- '13 Mazda 2
That's a glowing review. Also, your SCCA stickers are in the same place as mine.
First event for the car with the new setup...500/550 on the custom valved BCs. Very planted, was able to slide the car around at will, plenty of rotation and no more wonky feeling mid corner. Hankooks require a touch more pressure than the BFGs to work well (34/35psi F/R) but man are they good.. After the Pro Solo I'll be out testing the BFGs again on the SSRs with the higher pressures to see if I get the same results. Might be before the Pro but depends on the weather and if I can get to all the events before then.
And the quick run..Excuse the post run commentary celebration, At the time it was a top 10 PAX run that just raw timed every FoST in GS (including a bunch of Trophy drivers in Lincoln) and almost raw timed your current FS National Champion in his Camaro SS..Yup RAW timed, it was that quick) As it was the PAX finish didn't stick as we run 3 run groups; all 6 runs at once. The cloud cover lifted, wind died down when SSR, AS STR and STX ally ran, then I got bumped down one by one.. Ended up 17th overall, still the highest finish for the car against some major players on the East Coast. I'm really excited for this season. More to come as the next 6 weeks will be a bunch of squeezed in events culminating with the NJ Pro Mothers Day weekend. https://vimeo.com/124171439
And the quick run..Excuse the post run commentary celebration, At the time it was a top 10 PAX run that just raw timed every FoST in GS (including a bunch of Trophy drivers in Lincoln) and almost raw timed your current FS National Champion in his Camaro SS..Yup RAW timed, it was that quick) As it was the PAX finish didn't stick as we run 3 run groups; all 6 runs at once. The cloud cover lifted, wind died down when SSR, AS STR and STX ally ran, then I got bumped down one by one.. Ended up 17th overall, still the highest finish for the car against some major players on the East Coast. I'm really excited for this season. More to come as the next 6 weeks will be a bunch of squeezed in events culminating with the NJ Pro Mothers Day weekend. https://vimeo.com/124171439
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Heres a partial list of the stuff I have left over from my build and Rich's build (he's selling his car and has zero time to autox anymore)
I'll post prices and a FS thread as soon as I tag and quality inspect everything..
Coil over shock kit (Bilstein) 0000-04-2201-BL,
Front springs (ERS) 0000-04-9350-07,
Rear springs (ERS) 0000-04-9250-07,
Helper springs F&R 0000-04-9926,
Spring spacerF&R 0000-04-9925,
Front sway bar end links adjstbl 0000-04-2202,
Rear sway bar 0000-04-2203-RR,
Modified strut bearing plate 0000-04-2204,
Crash bolt set 0000-04-2205
I'll post prices and a FS thread as soon as I tag and quality inspect everything..
Coil over shock kit (Bilstein) 0000-04-2201-BL,
Front springs (ERS) 0000-04-9350-07,
Rear springs (ERS) 0000-04-9250-07,
Helper springs F&R 0000-04-9926,
Spring spacerF&R 0000-04-9925,
Front sway bar end links adjstbl 0000-04-2202,
Rear sway bar 0000-04-2203-RR,
Modified strut bearing plate 0000-04-2204,
Crash bolt set 0000-04-2205
- :
- 2012 Touring MT
First event for the car with the new setup...500/550 on the custom valved BCs. Very planted, was able to slide the car around at will, plenty of rotation and no more wonky feeling mid corner. Hankooks require a touch more pressure than the BFGs to work well (34/35psi F/R) but man are they good.. After the Pro Solo I'll be out testing the BFGs again on the SSRs with the higher pressures to see if I get the same results. Might be before the Pro but depends on the weather and if I can get to all the events before then.
And the quick run..Excuse the post run commentary celebration, At the time it was a top 10 PAX run that just raw timed every FoST in GS (including a bunch of Trophy drivers in Lincoln) and almost raw timed your current FS National Champion in his Camaro SS..Yup RAW timed, it was that quick) As it was the PAX finish didn't stick as we run 3 run groups; all 6 runs at once. The cloud cover lifted, wind died down when SSR, AS STR and STX ally ran, then I got bumped down one by one.. Ended up 17th overall, still the highest finish for the car against some major players on the East Coast. I'm really excited for this season. More to come as the next 6 weeks will be a bunch of squeezed in events culminating with the NJ Pro Mothers Day weekend. https://vimeo.com/124171439
Nice run.. so this is the place for the next ProSolo? I'l be there , not with my baby ...
Andres
