Jackson Racing Supercharger?

[Guido]

I was looking at the pics of the Miata Jackson Racing supercharger kit and it seems to look adaptable to the Protege engine. It's not actually mounted to the intake manifold, but is bolted on above the exhaust manifold.

The pulleys may fit along with the belt and brackets with some slight mods. The outlet pipe to the throttle body would have to be made but does not look that difficult.

Anyone else that has looked at the pics and thought the same thing? Let me know what you think.

www.jacksonracing.com

G.

 

[APEXistud]

Believe me man. Pretty much everyone on this site has looked into, discussed, speculated, dreamed, and thought about trying to mount a JR SC onto our FS motors. Hell a few of us have even emailed Jackson Racing about making a Supercharger and the response to every question was, no or not possible. Not to mention the cost of fabricating it.

 

[Guido]

Yeah whatever!

Have you seen the system for the Prelude?

Thats the tightest engine compartmant yet and they managed to squeeze a supercharger in there.

The fact is, they obviously think there is no market for it in the Protege. So they crank out systems for a piece of junk Ford Focus and every Honda in existence.

Now I see they have a soon to be released system for the PT Cruiser. Come on! Like thats a car you want to go fast in! I don't think so!!

G :wtf: :mad:

 

[70]

I know what you are saying Guido, but its the truth.

They don't want to make something for the Protege, that is their loss. The Focus kit won't fit, the Miata Kit will not fit.

Turbo is a better set up anyway

 

[spoolinmp3]

Turbo is a better set up anyway

Why settle for antiquated supercharger technology???Amen brotha

 

[turbo740]

Actually, Jackson Racing said they'll consider making a kit once the car is slated for 4th year production...some of the staff think it's a good idea. Too bad they'll be too late!

 

[Guido]

Why settle for antiquated supercharger technology???Amen brotha

You know what Spoolin,

If superchargers are so antiquated, then why does Toyota, Nissan, Ford and General motors use them?

I've seen more ****** up turbo engines than any supercharged engine.

Ever open the hood of a turbo car at night after a hard run?

The exhaust manifold and turbo are glowing red hot!!

Know what that underhood heat does to seals and hoses?
Guess?

Let alone that you should let it idle so the temp drops after five minutes. It cooks your oil so more maintenance! Higher cylinder head temperatures cause more head gasket failures and no supercharger system has ever burned exhaust valves.

Answer to the first question as to why the big companies use superchrgers: Less warranty claims, because they are more reliable and inexpensive to maintain!

Stop light to stop light where torque and instant throttle response is necessary is where superchargers rule!

Ever try driving a turbocharged car around a highway off ramp at the tires limit when the turbo kicks in. Whoosh! Boost! Tires break away and you lose control. Not Fun!

I'm not dissing you but don't diss blowers. they all have their place.

G

 

[70]

...(snip) I'm not dissing you but don't diss blowers. they all have their place.

G

And at altitude, a turbo does better than a blower ever will. Turbo compresses air which helps more at altitude. A roots type blower (which is what all of those use that you mentioned) simply pushes more air in and is just about worthless up here at altitude.

But, that is just MHO...

Blowers are also severly limited on the amount of boost they can make, thus limiting the horsepower potential available. Not to mention the intake charge on a roots blower is going to probably be higher since most roots blowers lack any kind of intercooling. How is that helping??

Blowers do have their place, you are right. But they aren't the be all end all of forced induction...

 

[chdesign]

well actually if you look at it the F series motor in the protege this is its 5th year. A supercharger made for the FS-DE will work on teh FP-DE with a simple belt change the block on the FP-DE is slightly shorter

 

[saided18]

Answer to the first question as to why the big companies use superchrgers: Less warranty claims, because they are more reliable and inexpensive to maintain!

G

:wtf: this is :bs: my friend use to work for a company that supercharged Vettes.


Every 30k miles or so the customer had bring in the SC for... can we guess....hmmm maintenance. the SC had to be rebuilt every 30k. so i don't know about your ZERO maintenance.

 

[Keith@FP]

The JR SC was originally sized for a 1.6l BP Miata motor, running 6 psi. It's at the limit of its efficiency range for that motor. On a 2.0 FS, you'd be heating the air more than you'd be actually compressing anything. Bad idea.

If you really want a Roots blower on your car, start with one of the larger M62 units or even bigger. The Roots has been highly developed by Eaton and is quite reliable. That's why you see it in OEM applications such as Buicks and Aston Martins. However, that's the limit of its attributes.

Or skip the inefficient Roots design and get a twin-screw such as an Autorotor. Far more efficient. That means a cooler intake charge, and thus more power. Mazda used one on the Millenia.

Or go with a turbo Turbos themselves are not less dependable than superchargers, but it's much easier to turn up the boost to "BOOM". To raise the boost on a SC involves new pulleys. To raise the boost on a turbo you need a $10 ball valve from Home Depot. Couple that with someone who's screwing around under the hood without enough knowledge and yes, you'll have a dead motor. However, Ferrari and Porsche seem to think turbos are a good idea.

With any forced induction application, you need to do the job correctly. Yes, the manifold of a turbo car gets hot. Well, heat shielding is not hard to install and does the job nicely. It's simply a matter of deciding what your goals are and designing and building a system to suit.

Keith

 

[saided18]

as always Keith is the voice of reason!

 

[melicha8]

Last time I checked there weren't any superchargers on F1 cars. Plus Turbochargers are more thermodynamically efficient.

 

[Guido]

Quote

Wtf this is bs my friend use to work for a company that supercharged Vettes.

Every 30k miles or so the customer had bring in the SC for... can we guess....hmmm maintenance. the SC had to be rebuilt every 30k. so i don't know about your ZERO maintenance.

Saided,

What does a one off jobber supercharger install have to do with a factory supercharged engine? Last time I checked Eaton had a 100,000 mile warranty.

Melicha,

What does an f1 car have to do with a street driven vehicle?
Try driving that f1 up a hill pulling a trailer.

You guys should lay off the crack smoking and read the post before replying.

Keith,

You made a valid point in regards to the twin screw design, it's also used in the the whipple supercharger.

G.

 

[Equinox]

You know what Spoolin,

If superchargers are so antiquated, then why does Toyota, Nissan, Ford and General motors use them?

are you saying Toyota, Nissan, Ford and GMC are bad ass companies? and nothign about their cars is old? Jesus you know how many times Toyota just drops the same engine in every car? corolla and their MR2.... celica and their matrix.... what makes you think they are so up to date...

I've seen more ****** up turbo engines than any supercharged engine.

Cause more people have turbos thatn Superchargers, if there are more hondas, yer gonna see more fast hondas than any other car. Whether they are fast or not.

Ever open the hood of a turbo car at night after a hard run?
The exhaust manifold and turbo are glowing red hot!!

That's what a turbo timer is for. Problem solved =)

Know what that underhood heat does to seals and hoses?
Guess?

Know what underhood heat does to RUBBER hoses? lots... how about silicone? lots less.

Answer to the first question as to why the big companies use superchrgers: Less warranty claims, because they are more reliable and inexpensive to maintain!

Fuel injected engines are more expensive to maintain than otherwise, shoudl we stop using fuel injection?

Stop light to stop light where torque and instant throttle response is necessary is where superchargers rule!

Since when is it nessecary to need more than 50hp at the wheels to leave a light and go with the flow of traffic? You don't need hp til you get on the throttle, premise behind turbos... hp when you take up the revs.

Ever try driving a turbocharged car around a highway off ramp at the tires limit when the turbo kicks in. Whoosh! Boost! Tires break away and you lose control. Not Fun!

....um...what can I say...stop driving on firestones.

I'm not dissing you but don't diss blowers. they all have their place.

I'm not trying to diss you, I like the idea behind a supercharger too, but I like the idea of a turbo better - oh, and I'm not trying to make this a flamewar, please don't do that either

 

[Guido]

1. Piston engines are antiquated. Electric will be the future.
2. Wrong! More cars are supercharged today than turbocharged.
3. Turbo timers don't restore your cooked oil.
4. Silicone everything! I don't think so!
5. Fuel injected engines are more RELIABLE. So your wrong again!
6. You made no sense in response to this one???
7. You've never driven around a corner.

I hope this will reply suitable to your listed comments. Your not dissing me at all. I'm more than interested in any intellegent comments or ideas.

G.

 

[saided18]

Quote

Wtf this is bs my friend use to work for a company that supercharged Vettes.

Every 30k miles or so the customer had bring in the SC for... can we guess....hmmm maintenance. the SC had to be rebuilt every 30k. so i don't know about your ZERO maintenance.

Saided,

What does a one off jobber supercharger install have to do with a factory supercharged engine? Last time I checked Eaton had a 100,000 mile warranty.

G.

i wasn't saying that all SC do need maintenance. not all SC are like that. but they still need to be look after as do turbos. that was my point

 

[turbo740]

Wow, this is has gotten really out of hand.

Drivers have different desires. We could go on about how the turbo setups generally add about 40lbs to the upper front portion of a FWD 4 cyl (not really beneficial to handling, if you ask me)...or we could go on about how roots superchargers suck (Mercedes uses them, though...funny(scratch)

It's irrelevant. Build your car to do what you want it to do. I'm putting an Eaton M45 on my car (Sorry if FM thinks that is too small but, for the boost level and hp I'm looking for, it's plenty...especially since I'll be intercooled. Yes the M62 will draw less hp, heat the air charge a bit less, and have more power potential...but it's heavier, takes up more space, more expensive, and not necessary on this engine in low boost, low flow situations. We don't rev to 9000 like the Honda boys do.)

Granted, Jackson Racing uses the s/c to boost the low end a bit on Hondas which are generally known for sucking ass at low revs. The FS 2.0 doesn't have this problem (as bad) and the tranny ratios help it even more. There's no need for all that grunt off the line, I agree, but many of you wouldn't complain if you had it.

I want instant throttle response. I want "blower whine". I don't want a car that feels just like my 1.8T Jetta. I want to do something not many other people are doing. I want a shiny ceramic coated header and 2 high flow cats that pass NJ emissions visuals. They don't look at the intake manifold here. It doesn't mean it's better or worse. Just do what you want to do and like it.

If you all want to flame each other about whether turbos or superchargers are better, build your own max effort cars and pit them against each other in looks, drags, autocross, rally, ice races, whatever.

Just shut the fu** up and have fun. (bicker)

 

[turbo740]

are you saying Toyota, Nissan, Ford and GMC are bad ass companies? and nothign about their cars is old? Jesus you know how many times Toyota just drops the same engine in every car? corolla and their MR2.... celica and their matrix.... what makes you think they are so up to date...

Ummm...Probe and Protege. FS 2.0...seems kind of the same as your comparisons, Equinox.

Not flaming, but this an unfair thing to say. That's like calling a Vette a piece of s*** because it had a 350 in it for 20+ years with just some intake, cam, and head changes.

 

[Guido]

I'll end this now by not posting any further on this issue.

It's regretful that when I bring up questions regarding the feasability and application of superchargers on our cars, that others start a pissing contest about turbos.

This thread wasn't a place for you to come in and say "OH yeah Turbos are better!" I could care less about the application.

If your preference is Turbos, great go pat yourself on the back.

I don't want to to hear about it because it's not the answer to the questions I was asking. It is completely irrelevant.

I can imagine that the the same would happen here if someone asked how to improve the shift quality of their automatic trans. Someone else would probably have to cut in and say that automatics are s***.

This is not constructive and does not share the intellegent ideas that alot of people have.


G.