Its not just me...

[JDM Sam]

Also, keep in mind many of us bought our MSPs when they were 20.5k, no bargaining. Sticker price only; like it or leave it. I hate to generalize but like I said before, it seems as though the people lately that have been getting them and then trading them are the ones who thought "oh, its cheap, has a turbo and looks cool. lets get it" and then they are disappointed. I have yet to see more than a couple of the original "OG" MSP owners who did pay the 20k trade in for something else; however I see numerous newer owners talking about trading every day.

There's a love that just doesn't seem to be shared amongst some of us.

Old gambino fo lyfe! (upyours)
BTW patrick has the mpi tuner, he doesnt have the old perfect power anymore.
You need to arrange for a TX meet again in DFW this time.

 

[shaolin]

Hey guys, I'm one of the people you guys are talking about. I recently traded in my MSP for an RX-8. I severely miss the MSP, as it was one helluva spunky little car with alot of character. If I had my choice I woulda kept both cars, but my budget just won't allow, and neither will my already cramped garage. I know alot of you have beaten RX-8's with your MSP's, but I've always been someone who enjoys real "driver's cars." Not that the MSP wasn't, but simply put, the RWD, 50/50 weight distribution, 9K Redline, creature comforts, and honestly....the maturity of the RX-8 made it worth it to me. I also needed useable back seats, and I've been a rotary fan since my father bought his FD3S in 1994. I got 18K for my MSP...so it really was a no brainer.

The MSP compared to the RX-8 is like apples and oranges in a sense. I've been asked which one I preferred power wise a couple of times now, and I'll say that the MSP definitely has more USABLE every day power. Stop and go traffic, and stop light tire shredding, the MSP definitely gets the nod in that department.

However, the RX-8 very much matches my driving style better. I'm someone who likes to rev high, and rev hard, especially when entering corners and exiting. I heel-to-toe drive on the norm, and like to attack apexes like a bat out of hell.

Recently, the vegas mazdas went on a drive through red rock canyon, and for a portion of the drive I took the lead. I will say that the MSP behind me (TheJohnny) kept up quite well. However, when I pushed the 8 to its limit there wasn't anyone in my rearview in sight. The Mazda 6's that were out there also held up extremely well.

Sorry to have gone off topic a bit, but what I'm trying to say is that the MSP is definitely a great car, and if I had to have a FWD car, it would be my choice. But the potency of the rotary RX-8 that originally drew me to Mazda dealers in the first place, when I bought my MSP was just too hard to pass up. (By the way I would have bought it last year, if it wasn't for the fact that I had no automotive credit, and that's what I have now thanks to the MSP.)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andy.wray/topgear.wmv

Check this out, Jeremy Clarkson, one of the industry's toughest critics takes on the RX-8. By the way, my insurance loves the fact that I drive a 1.3L 4 door (upyours)

 

[t3ase]

i want to get something clear. i am not bashing the msp i'm am simply stating it has limits that has caused other msp owners to move on.

It has it's limits to those owners that have limits, as do all cars.

i should clarify what i meant, when i said "potential" of the car. to me the potential of the engine is what it can handle before the integrity of the engine and its components are compromised while running stock internals. i say this to maintain an common ground every car is limited by.

You say you're using that to maintain a "common ground" for every car yet you want to compare the engines of an economy grocery getter car to those engines in a RSX (race inspired), WRX (race inspired), RX8 (race inspired), and a SRT-4 (race inspired). Every other car that I can think of other than the SE-R, which I don't think is built up, has been designed since introduction for a performance status using a performance platform. For the price of some of the other cars mentioned, you can afford internals and go easily kick some ass.

However, since you can't add aftermarket internals in to your monthly car payment, not many people can do it.

if modified internals are put into play, the potential of any car is raised dramatically skewing the actually potential capabilities of the engine.

Mhmmmmmm, and if the car is, in general, built to be a performance vehicle, the potential is raised dramatically. People see the RSX-S as a "popular fast car", thusly the aftermarket support. That's what it is mass marketed as. Not many people, when compared to the general crowd as a whole, see the Protege family as a performance vehicle. Why? Because it never has been marketed as such and when it was, it was only done for a year. EVen then, it wasn't a specialized performance line up.

that being said, a msp running stock internals and turbo may reach 250 whp under normal conditions. from now on out, its would be wise to invest in internals. why, b/c the engine wasn't meant to make any more hp.

You made a point I've been trying to make right there yet you don't see to get it as you keep comparing the MSP, or any Protege for that matter, to a 350 or WRX.

it has reached its potential at 250 whp.thats pretty good i say, however thats just where the evo's, sti's, z's are getting starting, w/ the srt4 and wrx merely a boost controller and downpipe away.

Again, these vehicles are/were/will be designed with a racing inspired background. You're missing the point of this car if you want that. Hell, why not compare the Protege to a Ferarri or a Diablo? MR2? Delorean? They all have engines, too.

although many people appreciate the msp as a whole, some people simply just wanna be the fastest and don't really care about anything else.

Ah ha! There it is. If this is your case, you bough the car for the completely wrong reason. This car was never marketed as a "quick" or "fast" vehicle. If you did research, you'd know that. Just because it has a factory turbo does not mean it was designed to be a performance vehicle. That seems like the only reason that many newer people here bought this car, because it was a <$20k turbo'd car. They thought, "OH A TURBO#!@$ CHEAP!#$ THE BOVS GO WOOO WOOOOOOOOOO"

Also, on that note why not mention the Ford F350 turbodiesels? Are there people on the Ford truck forums trading their trucks in because they can't go out and whoop some street ass? I doubt it. However, I know there are several members on Ford truck forums that have tuned the hell out of their trucks and they can kick some serious ass.

It all boils down to being passionate about what you have. Key phrase there; what you have.

I can say that in the months prior to getting my MSP, I spent countless hours reading everything I could find and from that I did come to the conclusion that this was not meant to be the fastest car eVAR!@# It's just a Protege with a bit of help on the engine side and massive help with handling.

Handling can potentially save my life in every day driving situations; I doubt having 700hp can do that.

unfortunely for many people 250 whp isn't enough, and forged internals is not an appealing options. a more appealing option for them is to move on to an already faster car thats begging for easy mods to make their cars fly.

Forged internals + management can both be bought and installed probably less than you can get a new car for. Especially if you're one of the folks that bought their MSP when they were like 16k. Is it more appealing because it's easier? You can just bolt on things? You don't have to use your own time to research things? You don't have to come up with your own ideas? You don't have to be unique? That's not easy to me. That's mudane and ridiculous. However, since you're for all out power, go for it. You obviously bought this car for the wrong reason and now you're finding that out.

you have a point to an extent. how many people usually have 30g's laying around for a car.

Whether you put it in payments or a lump sum, not many people in the crowd Mazda targeted the MSP for have 30k for a car anyway.

its not like they're gonna spend 20 k on the msp and have an extra 10 grand lying around to hook it up.

Lying around? No. Taking your time and doing it right as you get the money? Yes. If you can afford the 30k car in monthly payments, you can now save the difference in those monthly payment and insurate rate differences and there ya go.

most people fiance their cars 4-5-6-7 years and get incredible low rates.

Again, with the demographic Mazda marketed to, this normally doesn't happen in this age range.

how many banks are gonna approve you on a 10k loan to mod out a car?

Actually, a) you don't need 10k to make this car seriously different power wise and b) there are a few memebers here who have had their banks/credit unions approve loans for car upgrades.

and if they do it would be much higher rate than the interest rate for buying a brand new car.

Not really.

it would be easy to buy the more expensive car, spread out the payment over 6 years, and spend a little extra cash here and there for little bolt on parts.

Maybe for some. However, for the rest, it's about making something they already love better while using what they can. If you want to go buy bolt ons like every one else in the world, go for it.

Again, it sounds like you've missed the entire point of this car. (bang)

 

[Hercdriver]

Thanks for sharing the video link. Hmmm, maybe the wife will drive an automatic RX-8........

 

[Protege52003]

I live in mass. and it sucks in the snow! Thought about getting rid of it but never did.

did you get some snow tires? i wish I had a MSP!!! will lose money on my P5 though, which I like a lot.

 

[yashooa]

Also, keep in mind many of us bought our MSPs when they were 20.5k, no bargaining. Sticker price only; like it or leave it. I hate to generalize but like I said before, it seems as though the people lately that have been getting them and then trading them are the ones who thought "oh, its cheap, has a turbo and looks cool. lets get it" and then they are disappointed. I have yet to see more than a couple of the original "OG" MSP owners who did pay the 20k trade in for something else; however I see numerous newer owners talking about trading every day.

There's a love that just doesn't seem to be shared amongst some of us.

It is all too easy to forget what a balanced car the MSP really is.
It does everything well looks, handling, and yes Speed. It will never be an Enzo but with a simple MBC it is a fairly quick everyday commuter car.
Heck I am one of the ones who bought one in Feb03 and they would barley let you test drive one then. I paid 19k for mine and I don't feel the least bit ripped off.
I have 50k miles at 12PSI and I can still pull down more than 30MPG. It uses no oil, makes no funny noises (thanks to three sets of bushings), has more grip than I am willing to use, looks great, has a kickass stereo, carries all my kids, and has been as soild as a rock all but a couple of minor warrantied repairs. If it weren't for the fact I am spending 10's of thousands right now to buy crap for my newly built home I would have added a street legal exhaust, an SMIC with hardpipes, Desling's brackets, and thats it because this, for the most part, would correct the only major mechanical deficiencies the car has.

 

[t3ase]

It is all too easy to forget what a balanced car the MSP really is.
It does everything well looks, handling, and yes Speed. It will never be an Enzo but with a simple MBC it is a fairly quick everyday commuter car.
Heck I am one of the ones who bought one in Feb03 and they would barley let you test drive one then. I paid 19k for mine and I don't feel the least bit ripped off.
I have 50k miles at 12PSI and I can still pull down more than 30MPG. It uses no oil, makes no funny noises (thanks to three sets of bushings), has more grip than I am willing to use, look great, has a kickass stereo, carries all my kids, and has been as soild as a rock all but a couple of minor warrantied repairs. If it weren't for the fact I am spending 10's of thousands right now to buy crap for my newly built home I would have added a street legal exhaust, an SMIC with hardpipes, Desling's brackets, and thats it because this, for the most part, would correct the only major mechanical deficiencies the car has.

I think that's the most understandable post you've made...evAR!$

(2thumbs)

 

[SpicyMSP]

t3ase, there isnt really a need to sit here and argue each and every point someone is making. Everyone buys cars for different reasons, and thats ok. Argument and trying to make YOUR point was not the intention of this thread.
I just wanted to get a general idea why.

 

[noclue119]

t3ase, there isnt really a need to sit here and argue each and every point someone is making. Everyone buys cars for different reasons, and thats ok. Argument and trying to make YOUR point was not the intention of this thread.
I just wanted to get a general idea why.

I think most people are feed up that they can't be after market parts off the shelf for our cars which make them go faster then the srt-4.

I.E. There is not such thing as Hondata for Mazda or Swapable engine like the 240sx

 

[Gbourdon]

I want more luxury. I went out shopping for something that was "top of the line" for its model. I refuse to buy base model anything.

I told myself that I would not get a car without leather and it had to have a sunroof. I found the MSP and chose that. I looked at the SVT, Spec-V, Altima 3.5 and for the money and style the MSP was the winner.

If I decide to keep it then the car will get leather upholstery and possibly a sunroof.

 

[kicker22705]

t3ase, there isnt really a need to sit here and argue each and every point someone is making. Everyone buys cars for different reasons, and thats ok. Argument and trying to make YOUR point was not the intention of this thread.
I just wanted to get a general idea why.

thank you, and thats all i was getting at. i was just giving an oppinion in a different perspective. imo, nobody was giving the completey obvious reason why people were trading in the msp. whether they didn't know, denied it, or simply b/c they were worried to get bashed for saying it.

i got the msp b/c it was the car for me. i researched this car for 6 months before i bought it. i digested every piece of information i could find in mags, web ariticles, and theses forums. i knew exactly what i was getting into when i bought it. in the end, it came down to a this, a used 00 s2k, and a 01 wrx. in that impressive group of cars, i opted for the msp. i chose that for many of the same reasons you stated tease. i liked the fact the car was came already fully loaded, i like the car was quick, i liked how the car looks, i loved how the car handled, but the edge that won me over was how rare it was. i was about to buy a msp half a country away in texas, before i was lucky enough to find one in my back yard an hour away.

tease we seem to agree on many aspects of the car and we share the same reasons why we bought it the first place and aren't trading it in. try to understand, i'm just trying give my pov of why people are trading in their cars. is it that hard to believe, many people don't see the same potential you do in the msp. they don't look that far ahead. people have different limits when they think of potential. obviously yours is well beyond what the people trading in their msp tend to view at as the limit. you said it very well here.

"It has it's limits to those owners that have limits"


"You say you're using that to maintain a "common ground" for every car yet you want to compare the engines of an economy grocery getter car to those engines in a RSX (race inspired), WRX (race inspired), RX8 (race inspired), and a SRT-4 (race inspired)"

those engines are how they came straight out from the factory - its a common ground. they are race inspired, yes, thats exactly my point. this is why they have greater potential in the factory form. they were meant to be fast and be able to handle a beating. the protege is a grocery getter like you said and they weren't meant to handle as much.

You made a point I've been trying to make right there yet you don't see to get it as you keep comparing the MSP, or any Protege for that matter, to a 350 or WRX.

OMG we are arguing on a matters we completely agree on. this is exactly what i'm saying. the msp engine is not comparable to the those of the WRX and 350z. they are on a another level above. that is exactly why people have moved on, or should i say moved up a class to the evo's, sti's, z, etc.

if people bought a msp to compete with those cars, then they are a complete idiot or genious. idiots if they thought they could keep up with the fast cars with only bolt ons b/c it was turbo. genious if they knew the power that can be achieved beyond the bolt on stage, to go along w/ its already steller handling would make it a worthy car in any scene.

 

[SpicyMSP]

Dam STFU already

 

[thunder]

Regardless of all the bla-bla, pro or against, this car is just great, period! I mean, for your dollar you don't get the best power (that's the SRT-4), but you get best FWD handling, best looks, best stereo, 4 doors, and best smiles per mile! It's useless to compare it with cars that are $5000+ more expensive, they belong to another class. Whenever in doubt, just read again what Bryan Herta said about the MP3 (an article comparing grip of Ferraris, Porsches...) a couple of years ago, and think that you have a car that's even better than that!

 

[Gbourdon]

I like chocolate milk. The kind I make myself is best. I do not like chocolate syrup to make my chocolate milk. I use the Nesquick powder.

 

[Swerny]

I don't understand the trading it in part, or the need to be the fastest car on the block.
I bought mine thinking it had everything I wanted at the time (4 doors, looks, handling, stereo, good power) and that I wouldn't need to mod it.
I was also one of the original group, i waited for it and paid sticker.
As time went on, i was craving more of everything (as I always do and I think everyone does to a lesser or greater degree).
An MBC, intake, exhaust, more stereo, the car is still perfect for me in every way.
Then again, i don't need to be the fastest, I don't drag race and couldn;t care less if the WRX or SRT are faster, have more power or whatever.
I agree with what people have said here, if you bought this car thinking you would blow the doors off other cars, you bought it for the wrong reason. There are better options out there for a 1/4 mile beast etc.

 

[kicker22705]

Dam STFU already

STFU??? where do you get off telling me that. you asked the question. is that how you go about all the answers to the questions that are replied to you? or just the ones where you don't agree w/ the reply.

i didn't have to answer this question, especially b/c i'm not one of the people who isn't satisfied w/ the msp and want to sell it, but you asked and you weren't getting any answers. You got a bunch of i dunno's, so i politely answered w/ a different pov.

if you don't wanna hear the answers to your questions, don't waste anyone's time asking it next time.

 

[SpicyMSP]

crap your going on and on and on.... I have A.D.D mmm kay.. I read about 1/4 of your posts because they ARE SOOO LONG for no reason.. thanks for your feedback about the car, which IS what i was asking yes. But I just went and told clay to back off you, and he did, and now your jumping back on him. .. so leave it be with your oppinion about the car, its all i asked for.

 

[kicker22705]

point taken. sorry i tend to ramble when i try to make my point. hope ya got the answer you were looking for.

 

[CommieSpeed]

I like chocolate milk. The kind I make myself is best. I do not like chocolate syrup to make my chocolate milk. I use the Nesquick powder.

That is total bulls*** man. Don't come on this forum talking that s*** unless you have knowledge to back it up. The chocolate syrup, when mixed properly, produces a more creamy and delicious milky treat. The powder continually clumps and sticks to the bottom, resulting in little floating bitter dust chunks in my milk. I think I'll make some with Hershey's Syrup right now....

 

[C-Bass]

The main reason I want to get rid of mine is because it runs (hesitates) like a$$.(boom02)

(werd)

Mine runs like crap too, although I'm pretty sure the dealership never actually flashed it when I asked them to. If I was going to end up getting rid of mine (a very real possibility) it would be so I could afford to put myself through school without working a full-time job at the same time.