Issues after Perrin Fuel Rail Install

[magnumP5]

So I installed my Perrin Fuel Rail yesterday with zero issues. The car started right up and even though the idle AFRs were off a little I attributed this to the ECU learning.

Anyhow, after some driving the idle is back to normal - mostly. About once every 1-2 minutes the car will hiccup and try to stall and I've noticed the AFRs go lean (~16:1). However, the car always catches itself and after about 10 seconds the AFRs are back down to normal levels. This has happened enough so a CEL (P0171 - Bank 1 - System too lean) has been thrown. I just want to know if anyone else has run into similar problems and what/if anything solved them.

For reference, there are no leaks anywhere that I can see and no excess smell of gasoline in or around the engine bay. No wires or hoses that seem overly kinked. The only thing I can think of is that I was not able to fully clamp the connection of the Perrin rail with the OEM line - it just wouldn't budge. There was some little blue thing on the stock line; I didn't remove that, should I have (sorry, don't have any pictures of this)? Like I said however, even with the clamp left open the connection feels tight (in fact, I'm not sure how it will come off - I've tried and can't get it) and there are no leaks.

BTW, I've put roughly 100 miles on the car since the install and I've had the CEL thrown twice after clearing it the first time.

HELP!

 

[magnumP5]

Bump, I know you guys are out there...

 

[CitizenPro]

Interested to see some info on this as well....bumpity

 

[darkane23]

So I installed my Perrin Fuel Rail yesterday with zero issues. The car started right up and even though the idle AFRs were off a little I attributed this to the ECU learning.

Anyhow, after some driving the idle is back to normal - mostly. About once every 1-2 minutes the car will hiccup and try to stall and I've noticed the AFRs go lean (~16:1). However, the car always catches itself and after about 10 seconds the AFRs are back down to normal levels. This has happened enough so a CEL (P0171 - Bank 1 - System too lean) has been thrown. I just want to know if anyone else has run into similar problems and what/if anything solved them.

For reference, there are no leaks anywhere that I can see and no excess smell of gasoline in or around the engine bay. No wires or hoses that seem overly kinked. The only thing I can think of is that I was not able to fully clamp the connection of the Perrin rail with the OEM line - it just wouldn't budge. There was some little blue thing on the stock line; I didn't remove that, should I have (sorry, don't have any pictures of this)? Like I said however, even with the clamp left open the connection feels tight (in fact, I'm not sure how it will come off - I've tried and can't get it) and there are no leaks.

BTW, I've put roughly 100 miles on the car since the install and I've had the CEL thrown twice after clearing it the first time.

HELP!

I got the same code and symptoms when I accidentally pulled a vacuum hose. So I guess you could double check the hoses are secure just to be safe. Other than that I don't know man.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Magnum try to get another MAF sensor, yours might got messed up..

 

[magnumP5]

Update:

So I pulled all the fuel rail stuff out again. Surprisingly, the Perrin hose wasn't that hard but that stupid little blue piece sure was wedged in there so perhaps that was causing a flow disruption. As for everything, all the o-rings and grommets looked fine (I ordered all new ones anyway). However, the insulator (I call them spacers) on the cylinder 4 injector was missing part of its plastic ring (the thing with ridges on it). All the others were fine except this one. Perhaps this cause the injector not to seat properly in the intake manifold? Well, like I said I ordered four new grommets and o-rings and I also bought four new insulators as well (plus a valve cover gasket but that's unrelated). I tested the connection of the Perrin quick disconnect and it clipped nice and smoothly this time and I was able to fully clamp down the disconnect. I also thoroughly cleaned all electric connections and made sure the injector bungs were free of debris. I also went out and bought a bunch of those little hose clamps and clamped down maybe 75% of the vacuum hoses in the engine bay (mostly those that either didn't already have a zip tie on them or ones I didn't think really necessary). I also grabbed some seafoam for the gas tank to further clean the fuel lines and injectors of any junk that might have worked it's way in there. Now I just have to wait for the ordered parts and then everything goes back together and hopefully she'll be running just fine!

 

[magnumP5]

Update:

Finally got my new injectors bits in the mail today after a week of waiting. I had purchased four new o-rings, grommets and insulators as one of the insulators was missing about 1/3 of its plastic "ring" so I figured I might as well replace everything. Well as soon as I changed out of work clothes I immediately went to work. Got everything hooked back up and started the car. It took a few more cranks than usual (had to fill the lines no doubt) but it started right up and the idle immediately went to 14.7:1; a good sign so far. So I let it idle for about 5 minutes while I inspected all the connections and looked for leaks of any kind; the entire time the idle was back to it's normal (smooth?) state with no hiccups and lean spits. I then took the car out around the block to get it completely warmed up and to see how it reacts after some driving. The idle was stable at all stop signs and traffic lights and remained stable when I returned. I again let the car idle for about 5 minutes while I checked over everything again. Everything looked good so I decided it was time to push it a little. Took the car out a little longer and did some WOT throttle runs. Besides the fact my tune is now garbage (running rich) everything seems to be back to normal. Came back and let the car idle for about 10 minutes to cool down and inspect again and everything seems good. CEL is still on because I'd rather it clear itself than have to do it myself and have to deal with a finicky car for 10 minutes or so. I'm not going to say it's fixed until the CEL goes away but the idle is definitely better and the car seems to run a little smoother.

 

[magnumP5]

Quick Update:

Well the CEL stayed on yesterday for the entire drives to and from work. However, when I left to run an errand later at night I started the car and behold, no CEL! I drove roughly 10 miles last night and have so far driven roughly another 10 miles to work this morning and the CEL has remained off. I'm going to give it a few days before I declare the problem fixed but until then it's looking pretty good.

 

[darkane23]

Quick Update:

Well the CEL stayed on yesterday for the entire drives to and from work. However, when I left to run an errand later at night I started the car and behold, no CEL! I drove roughly 10 miles last night and have so far driven roughly another 10 miles to work this morning and the CEL has remained off. I'm going to give it a few days before I declare the problem fixed but until then it's looking pretty good.

Sweet deal man, I'm thinking it might have been the insulators on the injectors maybe, idk. Either way I'm glad to hear your up and running!

 

[magnumP5]

Sweet deal man, I'm thinking it might have been the insulators on the injectors maybe, idk. Either way I'm glad to hear your up and running!

Yep, I figured it was either the messed up insulator or the "little blue thing" in the fuel line that I didn't remove at first. I know those insulators are important. When I first swapped manifolds to one without VTCS I forgot to replace those and man was there gasoline spraying all over the place while the car attempting to run. The blue thing could have been a flow impediment though.

 

[darkane23]

Yep, I figured it was either the messed up insulator or the "little blue thing" in the fuel line that I didn't remove at first. I know those insulators are important. When I first swapped manifolds to one without VTCS I forgot to replace those and man was there gasoline spraying all over the place while the car attempting to run. The blue thing could have been a flow impediment though.

Yea it could've been the blue thing causing it to impede the flow and run lean. Btw that gasoline spraying sounds dangerous lol. So what's the next mod?

 

[magnumP5]

I've got half a turbolife FMIC kit (waiting on a new coldpipe to be made), I've got a MAM exhaust manifold waiting for some ARP studs, a black powdercoated valve cover, all new braided steel oil lines and aluminum fittings and I'm still waiting on some AEM gauges and patiently for 505zoom's intake manifold to come out. I think that's it. After all this the next step is a built motor...

 

[darkane23]

Nice. Keep us posted man. Hopefully I'll be able to start my turbo build by next month. I already have I/H/E and the OBX crank pulley but I need more power I want to squeeze every hp I can out of this 2.0L motor.

 

[magnumP5]

Update:

Gave the car a run for it's money this afternoon - definitely need to get some tuning done; it's super rich in the lower RPMs but leans out towards 11.5:1 at higher RPMs. Man does she fly above 4500 RPM. On another note I think the idle might have hiccuped once again as I was letting her cool off in the garage. It only happened once in about the 5 minutes or so she was idling but still enough for concern. Hopefully it was just a fluke caused by something turning on/off (fans, etc.) and it won't happen again. CEL is still off and hopefully it stays that way. Will have more as I drive the car more.

 

[shane02pro5]

Glad to hear!

 

[Maxx Mazda]

You guys really need to be bleeding that fuel rail prior to starting the car. It's easty, takes only 5 minutes and a short piece of wire. It's in the FSM.

 

[magnumP5]

You guys really need to be bleeding that fuel rail prior to starting the car. It's easty, takes only 5 minutes and a short piece of wire. It's in the FSM.

I looked into the FSM and performed all the preparation steps listed. I didn't see anything about bleeding the line (I assume air can get trapped in there?). I would assume that after a while any air stuck in the line would gradually be removed?

On another note the CEL came back - boo! Everything was fine and as I was cruising to a stop I noticed the CEL on, no funny driving or anything. While stopped the car went lean to about 16:1 for a split second before going rich (13.5:1) where it then hiccuped and the idle returned to normal. That only happened once and since that nothing else has happened.

Could this be a result because I didn't "bleed" the rail?

EDIT: Okay I now see the after repair procedure but I don't understand it. Wha/where is the DLC terminal F/P and the same for the body GDN (I know that is ground). I can see why this might cause problems if it's not performed when the car first starts up but why would problems surface after nearly 50 miles of driving. Could not priming the rail cause this?

 

[Maxx Mazda]

The diagnostics port is on the drivers side under the hood, between the strut tower and the windshield. Take a wire, stick it i nthe terminal listed, and put it to ground, then turn the key to run. Let your fuel pump run for a good 5 mins or so and look for leaks.

 

[magnumP5]

The diagnostics port is on the drivers side under the hood, between the strut tower and the windshield. Take a wire, stick it i nthe terminal listed, and put it to ground, then turn the key to run. Let your fuel pump run for a good 5 mins or so and look for leaks.

Ok, I can do that. It's interesting though because I've had the car running for now almost a week and today is the first day anything happeneded. I've left the car idling for upwards of ten minutes before and no leaks and no funny idles. Are problems just popping up now because I didn't prime the system? Also, should I do the preparation procedure again before doing this (remove pump relay, start car, let it die, crank, etc.)?

Also, is this procedure simply to verify there are no leaks in the system or does it also serve some other purpose. I'm almost positive there are no leaks - no puddles on the ground, no smell of gasoline and I've even held my hand around all the connections and there was no trace of gasoline. I'm just curious if air or anything could have gotten trapped in the system (similar to brake lines).

 

[magnumP5]

So I've been closely watching my AFRs all day while driving and the car has not once hiccuped again. The leanest it has gone at idle was 15.3:1 from what I can tell and even so it was only there for a split second (oscillating as usual). From what I can still tell there are NO fuel leaks. I let the car idle for about 2 minutes after getting home and the turned it off. Fuel pressure in the rail according to my gauge was just shy of 40 psi. I checked around all the injectors, my fuel pressure gauge connections and the fuel line connections by the firewall - not a hint of gasoline anywhere. The procedure in the FSM is just a fuel leak test and what I did was comparable.

Anyhow, I'm beginning to think this CEL might be something different (2nd O2 if it is) because I'm pretty sure it came on while I was driving not stopped and idling. Both other times the P0171 CEL was tripped the car was idling and the AFRs jumped lean for a few seconds before returning to normal. While I did have the idle AFR jump to 16:1 for about one second it then went rich (13:1), hiccuped and then idled like normal. It's only done this once since Monday and the CEL was already on when this happened. I'm going to be doing some work tomorrow on the car so if the CEL is still on I'll go get it read. I'm hoping it's something stupid like "Bank 2 CKT No Activity". My nonfouler typically gets clogged every 3 months and the ECU thinks the second O2 sensor is dead. It's been quite a while since the last time I cleaned it out so I hope it's that...