Is this common in AWR endlinks?
- Thread starter AzteCypher
- Start date
AzteCypher
black ops modifications..
- :
- 2001 Mazda Protege LX
No worries. The popping and clunking still freaks me out a bit. I check the endlinks every week just to make sure all is okay. LOL!
AzteCypher
black ops modifications..
- :
- 2001 Mazda Protege LX
Well I stopped checking my endlinks for a week or two and this evening I check on them and the driver side is broken again. That's it for me on these endlinks. Maybe my drop is too agressive but I'm still not sure. I believe I have between a 2.5" to 3" drop so it may be putting too much stress on those endlinks. I'm on the search for something stronger.
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AzteCypher
black ops modifications..
- :
- 2001 Mazda Protege LX
I'm not sure if it's the agressive drop or maybe it's binding on the o-rings. I'm going to remove the o rings and see if that helps.
I just don't follow you guys here.
How are you guys putting and "Preload" on the bar?
I mean the BAr is a rotational piece...THe only way to preload it at all would be to put the two sides at different lengthz or pressures?
I mean..the bar is there to help keep the body from rolling but it has to move as well.
It pivots at the bushing point...and when sitting..there should be no load on it if I am thinking right as both wheels should have equal force on them..Now if one were to drop..and on raise...as in a hard corner..the bar tries to counteract this.
Are you guys trying to get these tight and counteracting themselves while sitting still?
If so... your only adding load to the equation that doesn't need to be there I would think.
Glad I am not planning on running anything more than stockers on the front...AWR's seem to be a nightmare on these cars for the front suspension no matter what the Front setup is.
I am however going to run an AWR Rear Bar and Links.
How are you guys putting and "Preload" on the bar?
I mean the BAr is a rotational piece...THe only way to preload it at all would be to put the two sides at different lengthz or pressures?
I mean..the bar is there to help keep the body from rolling but it has to move as well.
It pivots at the bushing point...and when sitting..there should be no load on it if I am thinking right as both wheels should have equal force on them..Now if one were to drop..and on raise...as in a hard corner..the bar tries to counteract this.
Are you guys trying to get these tight and counteracting themselves while sitting still?
If so... your only adding load to the equation that doesn't need to be there I would think.
Glad I am not planning on running anything more than stockers on the front...AWR's seem to be a nightmare on these cars for the front suspension no matter what the Front setup is.
I am however going to run an AWR Rear Bar and Links.
Well I have always had problems with the links.
Its really a design flaw in the setup.
The AWR links on my AWR bar are rotting now.
I need a much more robust approach. The angle of the blocks to the strut tabs is a big weakness.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/m/105_Rod-Ends-Heim-Joints-Sleeves.html
Its really a design flaw in the setup.
The AWR links on my AWR bar are rotting now.
I need a much more robust approach. The angle of the blocks to the strut tabs is a big weakness.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/m/105_Rod-Ends-Heim-Joints-Sleeves.html
AzteCypher
black ops modifications..
- :
- 2001 Mazda Protege LX
I thought I was preloading the bar by pushing the sway bar all the way down and then stretching the endlinks to fit that distance. The only reason I thought it was preloaded was because when I set the car down the sway bar was being pushed down by the endlinks. Mind you I could be talking out of my ass and that's not how you preload the bar if you can preload it at all.
I had a replacement rod end so I replaced the broken one but I didn't put any bushings (o rings) in there. So my front has no bushings at all. The idea is that maybe the bushings weren't letting the endlinks move enough so lets see how well that theory holds up.
I had a replacement rod end so I replaced the broken one but I didn't put any bushings (o rings) in there. So my front has no bushings at all. The idea is that maybe the bushings weren't letting the endlinks move enough so lets see how well that theory holds up.
September 2007 :
- Installed AWR Endlinks
- Drove to Montreal from Winnipeg during which I had to tighten the seating nut continuously untill it seized itself into place during the winter of 2007/2008.
February 2008 :
- Noticed a clunking noise coming from the front end. Drivers Side endlink was broken.
- Emailed AWR and had a replacement link out to me very quickly.
- Received New Endlink. This version had a flatter non tapered sleeve.
- Installed New Endlink and applied thread-lock to the nut on the rod end to avoid the loosening of the Endlink again. This worked and held the nut in place, however the sleeve found a way to unwind itself. I continued re-adjusting this until finally, again, it had seized itself into place.
April 2008 :
- Clunk coming from front end again. Passenger Side endlink was broken.
- Emailed AWR again. No resolve yet.
June 2008 (Still without passenger front endlink):
- Sent follow-up email and received a quick response, however still no resolve.
June 21st, 2008 (Still without passenger front endlink)
- Clunkity Clunk Clunk Clunk........ Drivers side endlink broken... again.
I am now without any endlinks on my car.
I believe these endlinks seem to break on us for 2 reasons.
One; due to a weak material used in the rod ends. Have you taken a close look at the broken part of the rod end after you've removed it? I could be wrong, but It just doesn't look like its the greatest of quality material. and two; these rod ends not having a large enough diameter on the threaded portion for the length that they must sit out of the shaft in order to allow for adjusting pre-load. Naturally, force will be applied down the length of the shaft and will localize itself at its weakest link.
It is for these reasons (aside from incorrect installation), I too am lead to believe this is a design flaw.
Maybe instead of having these endlinks "adjustable" they could be sold in solid one piece units at different lengths, allowing for different, already measured, pre-load ratings. This would give the end user a stronger part with more assurance, and better accuracy in the load they are applying. Not to mention the part might end up being cheaper to make as there are less individual pieces needing to be cast.
Only question left is, would this be affected by different heights in suspension?
- Installed AWR Endlinks
- Drove to Montreal from Winnipeg during which I had to tighten the seating nut continuously untill it seized itself into place during the winter of 2007/2008.
February 2008 :
- Noticed a clunking noise coming from the front end. Drivers Side endlink was broken.
- Emailed AWR and had a replacement link out to me very quickly.
- Received New Endlink. This version had a flatter non tapered sleeve.
- Installed New Endlink and applied thread-lock to the nut on the rod end to avoid the loosening of the Endlink again. This worked and held the nut in place, however the sleeve found a way to unwind itself. I continued re-adjusting this until finally, again, it had seized itself into place.
April 2008 :
- Clunk coming from front end again. Passenger Side endlink was broken.
- Emailed AWR again. No resolve yet.
June 2008 (Still without passenger front endlink):
- Sent follow-up email and received a quick response, however still no resolve.
June 21st, 2008 (Still without passenger front endlink)
- Clunkity Clunk Clunk Clunk........ Drivers side endlink broken... again.
I am now without any endlinks on my car.
I believe these endlinks seem to break on us for 2 reasons.
One; due to a weak material used in the rod ends. Have you taken a close look at the broken part of the rod end after you've removed it? I could be wrong, but It just doesn't look like its the greatest of quality material. and two; these rod ends not having a large enough diameter on the threaded portion for the length that they must sit out of the shaft in order to allow for adjusting pre-load. Naturally, force will be applied down the length of the shaft and will localize itself at its weakest link.
It is for these reasons (aside from incorrect installation), I too am lead to believe this is a design flaw.
Maybe instead of having these endlinks "adjustable" they could be sold in solid one piece units at different lengths, allowing for different, already measured, pre-load ratings. This would give the end user a stronger part with more assurance, and better accuracy in the load they are applying. Not to mention the part might end up being cheaper to make as there are less individual pieces needing to be cast.
Only question left is, would this be affected by different heights in suspension?
We need to get some measurements going here.
Thread INSIDE the link and length of a stock link.
This was in GRM mag:
global performance parts
and
powergridinc
also searching thru a google of "rod ends"
www.qa1.net
Thread INSIDE the link and length of a stock link.
This was in GRM mag:
global performance parts
and
powergridinc
also searching thru a google of "rod ends"
www.qa1.net
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I just wanted to add this from the discussion thread in the MSP section
(see here: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123661396 )
I agree.
NO preload is desired. This is not a damper.
The problem, besides the ANGLED links, is the type of rod end being used.
It is weak at the joint of the heim and the threaded rod.
(see here: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123661396 )
I agree.
NO preload is desired. This is not a damper.
The problem, besides the ANGLED links, is the type of rod end being used.
It is weak at the joint of the heim and the threaded rod.
Same issues as others had, retention nut getting loose, play between rod and tie rod threads....not a reliable design, I had to Loctite the living hell out of them to get rid of the clunk. I bought mine because the stock one's are stupid expensive for nothing. There is definitely a design flaw, not enough threads for the loads probably. Not satisfied with the product at all.
self sealing and self lubing!
Take a look at the chromoly XM series on page 10 here:
http://www.rodendsupply.com/RodEndSupply_08_Catalog_new.pdf
$19 each
Aurora XAM-T / XAB-T Series Heavy Duty Shank Rod Ends PTFE Lined
Take a look at the chromoly XM series on page 10 here:
http://www.rodendsupply.com/RodEndSupply_08_Catalog_new.pdf
$19 each
Aurora XAM-T / XAB-T Series Heavy Duty Shank Rod Ends PTFE Lined
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There is a threaded tube as the center. The two ends have opossite threads so as you turn the center they both either move out of or into the tube. You can just set up the length so the bolt goes through the hole easily with the wheels at the same height (preferably on the ground if you can reach the endlinks) and you won't have any preload. Then tighten down the retaining nuts and you are set.
Look at this picture from AWR:
I would love to use this type:
http://www.powergridinc.com/thk.asp
https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)
http://www.powergridinc.com/thk.asp
https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)
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Damn!! those look really strong , if we could get something like that made by this company for the protege that is proven to not break , I bet alot of people would be interested including myself. Great find Crazee D. Did you browse the picture gallery? Check out the close-up pictures of the Gen 3 Camaro Front Prototype ftw
You can try ordering some heim or ball joints and connecting rod from mcmastercarr and make your own. MUCH beefier than the awrs, and only cost ~$50 in materials. Plus, you can get the heavy duty ball joints with 60degrees of movement, so binding shouldn't be an issue. Heres a pic of the rear endlinks I made.
do you mind sharing more info on this endlink of yours?
it looks awesome and i want to do it to my car
AzteCypher
black ops modifications..
- :
- 2001 Mazda Protege LX
Based on the above reading I can safely say that I'm NOT preloading my endlinks because I sit the car on the ground and set the endlinks in place. This shows my ignorance in terminology but I know I can turn a wrench and I'm pretty sure I set the endlinks up right.
Both endlinks are about the same length as can be seen in the pics. It seems to me that the endlink is getting torn apart from the threads. Jeff from Tripoint suggested that it might be binding so I took off the bushings because that's the only place I figured they could be binding.
I'm wondering if when I turn the endlink gets pulled and that's when it shears. Perhaps someone with a better brain than mine can look into this one. How is it weaker stock endlinks can hold up but thicker, stronger endlinks don't hold up. Too much of a drop? Is the road to rough?
Both endlinks are about the same length as can be seen in the pics. It seems to me that the endlink is getting torn apart from the threads. Jeff from Tripoint suggested that it might be binding so I took off the bushings because that's the only place I figured they could be binding.
I'm wondering if when I turn the endlink gets pulled and that's when it shears. Perhaps someone with a better brain than mine can look into this one. How is it weaker stock endlinks can hold up but thicker, stronger endlinks don't hold up. Too much of a drop? Is the road to rough?
I think it's the end link design.
The link should be perpendicular and apply force straight from the bar to its mount.
The extreme angles ours are positioned at create a torsional force.
Snaps the sturdy ball joints at their weakest twisting point, the thread.
The link should be perpendicular and apply force straight from the bar to its mount.
The extreme angles ours are positioned at create a torsional force.
Snaps the sturdy ball joints at their weakest twisting point, the thread.
