Well, I have over 30 years experience working with and representing automobile manufacturers in these areas, and from a legal standpoint, you are wrong.
ipod, 2014 CX5 GT stereo and Mazda Customer Service
- Thread starter garyd9
- Start date
Well, I have over 30 years experience working with and representing automobile manufacturers in these areas, and from a legal standpoint, you are wrong.
I'm not aware that Johnson Controls supplies the head units, but Johnson Controls does supply connectivity architecture to the industry. Actually, you may have identified the source. Johnson Controls may supply the device connectivity software which does not allow outside sources to resume play upon restart. And, Johnson Controls is more than big enough to resolve this.
Maybe everyone ought to start pestering Johnson Controls?
TreyP
2018 Soul Red AWD Touring CX-5
So...you're one of the people that coins these canned phrases that the car companies think the consumers are dumb enough to buy?
TreyP
2018 Soul Red AWD Touring CX-5
I actually tried that. They put it back on Mazda.
I checked with a buddy of mine, and last Friday Johnson Controls sold Homelink to Gentex (the mirror people who had been licensing Homelink from Johnson Controls), and that the rest of Johnson Controls automotive divisions are all for sale. It might be that Johnson Controls is not doing any work on any automotive division contracts, including updating the connectivity software used by Mazda, and is waiting for a buyer to come along and pick up all the unfinished work.
Sorry, I work less with how to protect the manufacturers' rear ends and more on how to make sure the manufacturer gets what its supposed to get from the suppliers.
And, no, I don't like those canned comments, from anyone (not just car companies), anymore than anyone else. What really burns me is the dealership mechanic who only gets paid by the Mitchell Brothers manual and says "unable to duplicate" when the mechanic only gets paid to fix, not to diagnose.
TreyP
2018 Soul Red AWD Touring CX-5
Interesting. Thanks for the info, that kind of sheds some light on this whole mess.
I'm glad you think so. Happily, judges and juries aren't bound by your opinion and usually stick with common sense. If the radio gives you the option to play song "A", and when you choose that, it plays song "B" instead, I don't think any reasonable person would call that anything but a defect. Not a safety or "serious" defect, but one that certainly should be covered by a new car warranty that doesn't exclude it.
By Mazda claiming it's working "as designed", they've cornered themselves into either defended accusations of misrepresentation, or they'll be viewed as negotiating in bad faith. Personally, I just want the silly thing fixed and could do without enriching lawyers. However, if it's the ONLY way that Mazda leaves me to get this resolved, I'm fine with that.
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I posted a link to this in another thread, but I'll post it here as well for people who want to see what Mazda calls "works as designed." I hope the team that designed the safety systems in the car has more of a clue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDyDdyXfChA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDyDdyXfChA
howlin4you
Member
- :
- 2014 Mazda CX-5 Touring AWD
I'm sure when Mazda went to Johnson Controls and contracted with them to build a head unit they had a list of specs which were part of the agreement. It must fit into this space, it must have our logo here, it must be this color, and (most importantly) it must function this very specific way. If it doesn't work the way it was supposed to as per the contract then it is up to Mazda to go back to JCI and make them fix it (I suppose though its a possibility JCI told Mazda the product wasn't ready and they needed more R&D time and Mazda forced them to deliver to meet production schedules knowing they had a faulty product. Mazda could then not fix existing units due to cost while working with JCI on improving future units).
Either way though as the end user we shouldn't have to worry about who produced what. We bought a Mazda, and when we have an issue we complain to Mazda. I'm guessing Johnson Controls is not really even set up to handle end user complaints since they are mostly a b2b supplier. Your points about third party software developers are irrelevant. If I have an exhaust leak I'll complain to my dealer, not the metal company that made the tube and supplied it to the exhaust manufacturer who supplies for Mazda. Your post seems to imply that Mazda is not to be held responsible for these issues. I get what you are saying, they didn't make it. But that chrome plated emblem on the back of my CX-5 isn't a JCI logo.
Gary, I have to say that I am impressed with your persistence on this problem. I really do hope that at the end of the day you get satisfaction from Mazda. I could never do what you are doing, I'm far too practical of a person. If the radio caused this much problem for me, I would have just dropped the $1k to replace it and been done with it. As much as my anger would want to stick it to the company, I just would not have the drive to spend this much of my personal time and money (if you go the legal route) to try and make them fix it. At least in the case of the CX-5, it looks like a rectangular hole with the radio in there, in one piece. If it was audi or bmw or any other model where the radio is tightly integrated and spread out over the entire dash you wouldn't be able to get a replacement so easily.
Well obviously that is a backhanded compliment. I've given up, but still will track the forums for a time to see if there is any resolution. I agree, given the dash layout, it is perfect for a double din unit. I just don't want to lose some of the built in functionality such as backup cam, steering wheel controls, bluetooth, and the car settings. Actually I could probably live with the car setting as I have left them the same since I set up everything the way I like. I think my solution will be to suck it up, drive the car another 15K, and then trade it in and go a bit more upscale with something pre-owned, preferably not Mazda. I have a number of other minor complaints about he car that I have never had in previous cars all have which been Hondas. The CX-5 interior looks nice, but there is a lot of cheapness. For one, I have a big white scratch now where the seatbelt clasp rubs up against the console. The console is the cheapest black plastic that scratches if you look at it funny. I just think I want to get rid of the car while it still looks nice, because I feel it is going to age quicker than any of my previous cars. Haven't decided what is next, but leaning towards Ford, Hyundai, or Honda if they bring over their Urban SUV concept.
replacing the head unit on my car to have all the same or similar features would cost (MSRP) around 2,000 USD (parts only - not including labor.) There's only a single head unit available today that has voice commands, Navigation, SiriusXM, bluetooth media, bluetooth phone, pandora, iPod, etc (all features that I'd lose if I pull out the factory unit.) That unit is the kenwood DNN990HD. In addition to that, I'd need the unit to interface steering wheel controls, the siriusXM add-on, the kenwood iPod cable adapter, dash face plate adapter, antenna adapter, replacement rearview camera (as the factory one is 6v and everything aftermarket wants 12v) and so on.
Even then I'd still lose the car settings menu.
Keep in mind that the 2000 is an estimate, purposely using MSRP, and assumes that all possible features would have to be replaced. I could probably go cheaper if I find things on sale, bundled, give up features, etc.
Even then I'd still lose the car settings menu.
Keep in mind that the 2000 is an estimate, purposely using MSRP, and assumes that all possible features would have to be replaced. I could probably go cheaper if I find things on sale, bundled, give up features, etc.
Didn't mean to imply its not Mazda's obligation to fix; it absolutely is. I only wanted to shed some light on how these audio systems find their way into cars. (BTW, manufacturers rarely spec out audio systems today. Usually, the vendor approaches the manufacturer with a proposal.) While this is Mazda's problem, Mazda has no software designers to fix this problem. That means, while some buyers want a quick resolution, these types of software issues can take a very long time to get resolved. All Mazda can do is "beat" on the vendor to resolve the issue, or find someone else to fix the issue. But, these issues are pretty complicated, and Mazda is a small company. My only real point is to not expect a quick resolution.
Luckily for buyers, most states (and the US Federal government) have warranty laws (NOT lemon laws) that limit just how long it can take to fix something. Granted, many of those laws use vague terms to place those limits (such as "a reasonable amount of time"), but precedent usually fills in what is and what isn't "reasonable." As well, when Mazda makes a statement such as "works as designed by manufacturer" and "will not repair", it indicates that they have no intention of making a repair.
I don't like the approach of using the courts. However, when Mazda starts using terms like "works as designed by manufacturer" to ignore problem and/or get around their obligations, what choice does a consumer have to deal with the situation? Either I allow myself to get screwed by Mazda, or I retain a legal professional to pursue Mazda and compel them to fulfill their obligation (or compensate me.)
Again, gary, you don't get it. The sound system works; it plays music stored on your device. It just doesn't work the way you want it to. As a vehicle, the CX-5 does its job. And, the radio plays music. You, somehow, believe the manufacturer is obligated to make the sound system work according to your terms (even if many other vehicle sound systems do work in ways you would find satisfactory).
Please, retain a lawyer and file suit. (This kind of reminds me of being involved in the lawsuit where the Lamborghini owner sued because he thought the brakes were louder than he wanted them to be. The brakes performed flawlessly, he just wanted quieter brakes. Yes, he lost and had to pay Lamborghini's legal fees as well as his own.)
So who defines reasonable cause and effect? Who defines "compatible?" There's also more to just "playing music" involved. There's selecting music to play, moving through tracks, changing the volume, changing the device, etc.
Pardon me while I play devil's advocate and (ab)use your statement in other parts of the car:
Taking what your saying to an extreme, the car would be functioning normally if, when I pressed the brake pedal, the horn sounded - and when I pressed the horn, the car stopped. After all, the car stops and the horn functions, but not in a way that I (and most people) would find satisfactory.
Okay, I'll even give another example using two aspects of the same subsystem in the car. Most people are aware that the car's TPMS system uses the ABS sensors. So, would it be reasonable for the TPMS indicator light to light up when the brakes lock, and the brakes to pulse when the tire pressure is low? Both the TPMS indicator and the ABS work - but again not in a way that most people would find satisfactory.
How about if I take it out of the realm of safety equipment, and move to more mundane things: Would it be reasonable for the driver's seat to spring into a fully reclined position if the driver attempts to adjust the lumbar support (on models with electronic lumbar support, of course.) How about if, when the passenger adjust their seat position forward, the driver's seat moves forward instead?
Okay - I'll move past the seating. How about controls on the driver's door? What if when you pressed the button to raise your window, it unlocked your doors (and when you tried to unlock the door, it raised the window?) Actually, in order to more closely relate this to the ipod issue, the various window buttons would unlock seemingly random doors, but there'd be no way to actually raise the window (yet you could still lower them.) My understanding of your description is that this describes door locks and windows that work - even if they don't work in a way I find satisfactory.
I don't think any person in the world would find it reasonable that selecting song "A" in playlist "1" causes song "G" in playlist "23" to play... and there's no possible way to play playlist "1."
(Please continue the discussion - if for no other reason than friendly banter.)
Take care
Gary
Bladecutter
Member
- :
- 2014 Mazda CX-5 Touring
Just makes me glad that I bought my CX-5 solely due to its traits as a car, and not as a music player device.
When I want to play music, I leave those duties to my Denon/B&W system in my basement.
When I want to drive a car, I choose the CX-5.
Seldom do I want to listen to music while driving, so I don't choose vehicles for their ability to play music, I choose them for their ability to drive.
Makes my life so much easier rather than getting all worked up about a system in the car that has NOTHING to do with the car's driving enjoyment.
I personally feel that having a sound/entertainment system that is too good is to distract you from the (lack of) driving dynamics of the car.
BC.
While I don't use an ipod, I do use the USB. It has similarly annoying problems. The shuffle isn't random at all. It plays the same song every time at startup. It re-scans the USB every time. And so forth and so on. I do desire, and expect, Mazda to fix these issues. I have reported them on the satisfaction surveys and to the dealer. I have shared my experiences on the internet. And now, like everyone else, I am playing the waiting game to see if and when they fix it. Though I find these problems annoying and disrupting, they do not impact my use of the vehicle enough to warrant me to take further action to try to correct the problem (though I admit some days its *almost* enough.)
I do understand that other people find this problem far more disrupting. Some people have replaced their head units because they couldn't take it. Others are considering legal action. These people are upset. They have the right to voice their opinion and to do what they want. My only peeve is when people compare stereo problems to major mechanical features of the car, like engine, brakes, etc. Regardless of how frustrated someone might be, this is still not a fair comparison.
Mazda released the car with a sub-par "infotainment" system. Clearly they know about it. Clearly they did it anyway. Are they at fault? Yes, no one is denying that. Its annoying when they claim "working as designed." Are they saying this to attempt to ward off people coming after them to fix it? Limit their legal exposure? Perhaps both. We are all very fortunate that the mechanical function of the car is sound. At the end of the day it comes down to this: if you really like the CAR, keep it and stay on top of Mazda to fix it. If you can't tolerate the infotainment system so much that the car no longer works for you, then either replace the infotainment system yourself or trade the car in and get something else.
Finally, I would like to see updates from people on how their situation is going, i.e. feedback from Mazda corporate, dealers and consumer protection agencies. However I think at this point we can do without the sarcasm and repetitive bashing attached along with the updates. Its not constructive, and it won't move the issue along. Put a check box in the "vented the frustration and anger" column, and lets move forward.
I do understand that other people find this problem far more disrupting. Some people have replaced their head units because they couldn't take it. Others are considering legal action. These people are upset. They have the right to voice their opinion and to do what they want. My only peeve is when people compare stereo problems to major mechanical features of the car, like engine, brakes, etc. Regardless of how frustrated someone might be, this is still not a fair comparison.
Mazda released the car with a sub-par "infotainment" system. Clearly they know about it. Clearly they did it anyway. Are they at fault? Yes, no one is denying that. Its annoying when they claim "working as designed." Are they saying this to attempt to ward off people coming after them to fix it? Limit their legal exposure? Perhaps both. We are all very fortunate that the mechanical function of the car is sound. At the end of the day it comes down to this: if you really like the CAR, keep it and stay on top of Mazda to fix it. If you can't tolerate the infotainment system so much that the car no longer works for you, then either replace the infotainment system yourself or trade the car in and get something else.
Finally, I would like to see updates from people on how their situation is going, i.e. feedback from Mazda corporate, dealers and consumer protection agencies. However I think at this point we can do without the sarcasm and repetitive bashing attached along with the updates. Its not constructive, and it won't move the issue along. Put a check box in the "vented the frustration and anger" column, and lets move forward.
