I need more head!!!!!

[Wiggles422]

wagner is supposedly in the process of making cams for the msp.

www.wagnermotorsports.net/

 

[MPNick]

I was wondering if anyone knows of a company that sells ported and polished heads for the mazdaspeed. Also a good place that sells cams? I have a local shop that does great work, but I can't afford to not have my car for 2+ weeks. And I also haven't found any cams yet. Help, please!!!

We can do a head for any range you want. We are building a MSP engine that will dyno around 400whp in the next few weeks. We have already made 328whp @only 15psi. Most people will over do things on the Protege head because they think they need to. How much power are you looking to make when the dust settles?

 

[bill harvey]

Nick what turbo was used for the 328 hp? what is the range for your headwork?

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

Mpnick- You have a flowbench?

 

[MPNick]

Mpnick- You have a flowbench?

Never flowed a head that I did ever. Not one of any of the types of cars. I do not care for the flow bench. I will compare torque and hp numbers with anyones work.

 

[MPNick]

Nick what turbo was used for the 328 hp? what is the range for your headwork?

Stock MSP turbo that was reworked.

 

[daedalus]

Stock MSP turbo that was reworked.

What exactly was changed? Those are some damn good numbers.

Mod list? Engine Management?

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

It's easier to make a head flow worse than better. No offense I would never trust someone to port a head for me with no flow bench.

 

[flat_black]

I've never flowed one of the heads that I've ported, but the results were always there, for sure... It's pretty easy to find obvious obstructions in flow, and to smooth ports. To do extreme port work, yes, opening up a port a LOT will cause a high flow rate. But it can also create discrepency in flow rates between ports.

My method by which _I_ port things is to clean up the stock castings, then match the inlet to the gasket, but with a taper. All this does is keep flow laminar, rather than giving it a rough edge, which will cause swirl and odd mixture problems for the fuel and air.

But hey. Whatever. =)

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

Ahh but bigger isn't always better. Alot can be said for port velocity.

Also you make most the gains from porting within an inch of the valves, and on the short radius turns. Add to that you will gain more from a well thought out valve job than "shining things up" or making things bigger.

 

[flat_black]

Precisely why I don't make anything bigger when porting my own head. =) Volumetric efficiency is found easier by creating a more laminar progression, in turn with an efficient intake manifold, and pulse timing will create an excess of intake charge, pressurizing the air, and creating a much higher efficiency rate. Even in excess of 100 percent, at times, but that's not as easy. My IRTB's should be pushing 104% with a properly matched head, at 5500 - 6000rpm. But that's why I'm working everything to work with one and the other.

Gains are found in all sorts of ways, though. Area under the curve, peak power... Engines that produce huge dyno numbers are often useless everywhere but where the power peaks, with a few exceptions. So, a huge gain through removing a large wall or opening up a port a large amount can be relational in gains; Someone who likes peaky power, sure! Those gains are great! Someone who likes overall power, not so good, most likely. If a head can flow, for example, 300 cfm, and the intake manifold and body/bodies can flow 230CFM at WOT, then your engine will never see the maximum potential of the head.

But if the head flows 230, and the intake manifold 300, you'll get a dead area where going more than, say, 80 percent on the throttle will be totally useless, since the head can't force in any more air.

It's all about balance. If you port with a good deal of common sense, you can get excellent overall gains. If you go crazy, you might just be biting off more than you can chew.

Just a few thoughts for ya all. =)

 

[MPNick]

It's easier to make a head flow worse than better. No offense I would never trust someone to port a head for me with no flow bench.

Thats cool, I know some people feel this way. But ask your self how many heads are you going to port and flow test and then dyno before you come up with the ideal set up for you? I have seen people take my cylinder head and have them flowed then ported and then reflowed. They even sent me the before and after flow charts. The head may have flowed more on the flow bench but they did not make anymore power. On one Viper it lost 60 ft,lbs at the wheel under 2500.

You at Deans set up. Smaller turbo then most people run and he still kicks everyones ass with less boost. More power at less boost, must be doing something right.

 

[flat_black]

Hey, Nick... How much would you charge to weld the quench area up and grind it down into a cloverleaf pattern? =) If you can do that, that might solve my problem of where to get the head done up!

 

[MPNick]

Hey, Nick... How much would you charge to weld the quench area up and grind it down into a cloverleaf pattern? =) If you can do that, that might solve my problem of where to get the head done up!

Yes we can do this. But I would spend my money on other things. To do that right we would need to pre heat the head first. Then weld it and place it back in the oven and post heat it back down to room temp. Even then I am not sure if you would drop a valve seat down the road. Lots of time and money and I am not sure that it would make you alot more power. I can work out a price if you want but I do feel you can spend your money better doing other things.

Our stage three port and polish on your cylinder head and manifolds for one. Less money and work and still will make big power.

 

[MPNick]

What exactly was changed? Those are some damn good numbers.

Mod list? Engine Management?

328WHP 338 Wtorque.

MPI Tuner with two injectors in front of the throttle body.
C-P pistons made to MPI specs. None stock spec rods.
Stage I MPI cylinder head and manifolds.
Stock MSP exhaust system with electric cut out, MPI downpipe, front cat removed.
MPI custom intercooler kit.
MPI reworked MSP GT25 turbo.
NOS intercooler spary kit.
15 psi 8 degree of timing removed, C16 fuel.

Could not dyno test with high boost due do stock wastegate not holding boost over 15psi. Do not feel many gains were made with C16, not much boost and tons of timing removed.

Hoping to dyno early next year with our new MPI ignition system and 21psi of boost. Target is 360-370whp. But you never know, maybe we will find another block.

 

[edaddeemsp]

We can do a head for any range you want. We are building a MSP engine that will dyno around 400whp in the next few weeks. We have already made 328whp @only 15psi. Most people will over do things on the Protege head because they think they need to. How much power are you looking to make when the dust settles?

The overall goal is about 400-425 whp, that probably won't happen too soon, as I have other responsibilities that I have to take care of before my car. I'm talking with someone on the board in regards to buying their head from them, unless you might have a better suggestion. I appreciate all the help.

 

[MPNick]

The overall goal is about 400-425 whp, that probably won't happen too soon, as I have other responsibilities that I have to take care of before my car. I'm talking with someone on the board in regards to buying their head from them, unless you might have a better suggestion. I appreciate all the help.

I may have hard dyno numbers for you to look over when you are ready to start your build.

Well we are in the middle ob building a 400whp MSP right now. There is a thread on it over at the FI section. We are keeping the stock manifolds. Both are on a very big diet. Also we are trying a very worked GT28-71 turbo. I know I can slap on a bigger turbo and making the power. The problem is I do not want any more lag that big turbo will give us. My thinking is even if more power can come from the bigger turbo, it will be a big trade off with spool up and lowend torque. I think with the better midrange and torque we would build up such a lead from the dead stop that the extra power from a big turbo would not be able to drive around us. Again this is all my thinking and I may be way off, time will tell.

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

NOS intercooler spray kit.... no wonder your dyno numbers are so high. I've seen those things give over 40whp on a dyno. Never give s*** when theres actually air going through (the real world).

 

[MPNick]

NOS intercooler spray kit.... no wonder your dyno numbers are so high. I've seen those things give over 40whp on a dyno. Never give s*** when theres actually air going through (the real world).

Not sure what car made 40 more but we all had a fan placed in front of the car when we did the pulls. I need to look back but it was somewhere around. 15 tops I think.

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

While I was attending UTI we dyno tested pretty much everything. We dynoed a GTI with a front mount that had the NOS intercooler sprayer.

We did a couple of runs without it and a couple of runs with it. Both with the normal dyno fan in front.
One run it gained 28hp, the next run it gained 46hp. Long story short we found the nitrous was actually getting sucked in the intake tract. The next week the guy ran it at the track. One run with, and one run without. He gained (I believe) .05 of a second using the sprayer...not 28-46hp.

Now I'm not saying that this is what happened, I can only tell you from what I have experienced.


Also if you ever go on the SRT-4 forums, there have been a couple of guys with the same experience.