I got SWIRLS

[anarchistchiken]

(werd), but with a proper applicator, such as a random orbital cutting pad with a hand grip, swirl marks can be softened and even removed by hand. But unless you're the karate kid, this is not the method you wanna use.

 

[ericrapp]

By waxwaxing, I meant as a protectant not repair. sorry fella's. And I have a lot to learn about paint maintenance Thanks

 

[controlo]

i'd much rather cover up swirls with meguiers or something then pay someone 100 bucks to put more swirls in it. just my .02 cents. it's just that i've never seen a car detailed right in my city. they always look like holograms.

 

[dread]

ok. theres alot of misinformation in this thread.

Waxing is not the cure for swirls. In fact waxes with filling capabilities dont fill in swirls 100%, only the minor scratches. (and i mean minor)

Machine polishing is the only way to remove swirls and marring. Not hand polishing, machine polishing. With a proper orbital, or rotary polisher and a proper set of pads and polishes.

Anyone who thinks their car is swirl free because they applied some 3m swirl remover by hand is sadly mistaken, you just dont know how to find the defects.

nokkers, the water blade can cause minor scratches in the clearcoat if the surface is 100% grit free, and the blade is wiped after each swipe. Also not using a rinse bucket to rinse your mitt b/w panels can also induce more scratches. Also your drying media might not be the appropriate one.

There are many different microfibers, and cheap microfiber (like found at autozone) can cause very minor marring that builds up and becomes noticeable after awhile.

The point of a car wash isnt suds, but a lubricant b/w the wash media (sponge or mitt) and the dirt. A sign of a good car wash is a ton of suds, but that isnt what cleans your car.

As for drying the only thing that

and for the above poster, a rock induced scratch is probably way to deep to be filled with the minor filling capabilities the UQD has.

Funny you are telling me the scratches are not filled in when they are. What do you think I am lying to you. I am OCD with my car and know every nick and scratch on it. I know how to look for swirls and scratches and know when they are not visible. UQD has filled in scratches on my BM and they are not visible. If you don't believe me go spend $200 for someone to polish the thin layer of clear coat off your car.

 

[NCZ13]

i dont need to pay someone, when i have the experience to do it myself.

clearcoat is measured in microns, and most modern cars average over 140 microns of clearcoat. maybe 10-20 microns might be removed on a heavily swirled car that had to be wetsanded to perfection. at about 15 microns removal is when clearcoat failure is close, but it depends on how much clearcoat is on the car (so its an average)

UQD does not have the filling capabilities to give the car a swirl free effect. No product does. It will only fill minor swirling, and i mean extremely minor. tiny. itsy bitsy. I have tried to point out swirl marks and defects on some of my new customers cars. and even in full sunlight they have no idea what to look for.

Go get a camera, make sure the flash is on, and take apicture of the panel, i guarantee youll see the defects.
Oh and to show you what machine polishing can do.

Left side was polished with a single pass of Megs 83 on a orange cutting pad. As you can see there isnt noticeable major swirling.
The middle tape mark is the untouched area.
The right was polished with a single pass of Menzernas PowerGloss oncompound on a orange cutting pad, and finished off with Menzernas final polish on a white polishing pad.

No OTC product has the filling capabilities to fill in major defects like this, and give swirl free results like on the right.

 

[dread]

I'm not going to argue with you man, I don't have major swirls. They are not visible that is that. I know what polishing can do.

 

[NCZ13]

fair enough, im not looking for an arguement. being as that was, there was alot of misleading info in this thread that needed to be cleared up.

 

[controlo]

i dont need to pay someone, when i have the experience to do it myself.

clearcoat is measured in microns, and most modern cars average over 140 microns of clearcoat. maybe 10-20 microns might be removed on a heavily swirled car that had to be wetsanded to perfection. at about 15 microns removal is when clearcoat failure is close, but it depends on how much clearcoat is on the car (so its an average)

UQD does not have the filling capabilities to give the car a swirl free effect. No product does. It will only fill minor swirling, and i mean extremely minor. tiny. itsy bitsy. I have tried to point out swirl marks and defects on some of my new customers cars. and even in full sunlight they have no idea what to look for.

Go get a camera, make sure the flash is on, and take apicture of the panel, i guarantee youll see the defects.
Oh and to show you what machine polishing can do.

Left side was polished with a single pass of Megs 83 on a orange cutting pad. As you can see there isnt noticeable major swirling.
The middle tape mark is the untouched area.
The right was polished with a single pass of Menzernas PowerGloss oncompound on a orange cutting pad, and finished off with Menzernas final polish on a white polishing pad.

No OTC product has the filling capabilities to fill in major defects like this, and give swirl free results like on the right.

i still see swirls on the right. (no) (rofl2)

 

[NCZ13]

i still see swirls on the right. (no) (rofl2)

=P

it wasnt swirl free per say. i was just aiming to remove the majority of the defects from the paint. It was my friends new 4runner, and the dealership had put a ton of damage in the paint. its my most recent detail (last week) so it was the closest picture in my photobucket w/o scrolling through the hundreds of pictures i have.

My point was that to even get it to that point is by machine polishing. Youll never see results like that on an entire car by hand.


dont make me post up my true swirl free before and afters =P

Holograms are the type of swirling that can be filled in and hidden. Holograms are extremely fine tiny marring left from a compound, or not letting a polish fully break down. But even still they might not be fully hidden. Ive ran into people who think holograms are good because they thnk it makes the paint shiny.

 

[ThrillRide]

The ultimate quick detailer does read the bottle. The fact that scratches that wax wouldn't even fill have disappeared from my paint is proof of that. Even a few scratches that my wife put in when she washed the car with a rock on the sponge are invisible. I could polish those all day and still see them, now I can't even find them.(dance)

Ok, I didn't read 'ultimate'. Perhaps the polymers in the UQD have some hiding abilities. But, to think that a qd will cover scratches induced by washing with rocks, that polishing won't take out, is just silly. If polishing doesn't remove them I don't think anything is going to make them "invisible", sorry. Not even 23 layers of the ultimate filler/hider (zaino) will do that. But hey, whatever works for you.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Dude, you just said "Dont compound anything" then told him to clay bar it then use a rubbing compound (3M swirl is a rubbing compound).

Clay bar should be done every once in a while, but is not neccesary in this case as claying your car pulls up sap, tar, road grime, etc, but the bar won't solve your swirl problem.

There are a couple different way of dealing with swirls, and it really depends how deep into the detailing rabbit hole you wanna go. I say dive all the way in, gotta learn somehow, right? Polish it with a light rubbing compound (I like these), seal it with a paint sealer (I swear by this stuff, but any good sealant will do), then hit it with your favorite wax, but make sure you don't get a wax that has cleaners or sealant built into the formula, you just need a top coat. Everyone seems to like poorboys paste wax, but it's a pain to put on without a Random Orbital polisher. My money goes to Zaino, but I've heard amazing things about Ultima products, and I'm trying this one next week. It's pricey, but according to everyone I've heard from, the ease of application and quality of protection more than make up for it.


If you dont want to do anything so drastic, get a one stage polish/cleaner/wax like Klasse AIO and go to town, but I can't guarantee results with the easier approach.

Now to address the problem of making the swirls. Swirl marks are not circular in any way, they are straight lines in your paint caused by rough surfaces touching your paint. Being inexperienced in this field, I'm willing to bet you have a wash mit from the local autozone, maybe use a towel to dry the car? These two things will cause more swirls than just about anything else you do to the car. If you use a cheap wash sponge or mit, or a car wash that is not sudsy enough, particles of dirt get trapped in the mit and cause dozens of long, thin scratches (swirl marks). A towel that is not 100% pure cotton will further scratch the paint while you dry. You should always air dry with an electric leafblower or use microfiber towels to avoid dragging particulate around your paint.

3M swirl remover is far from a rubbing compound.

 

[ThrillRide]

I use a Pinnacle microfiber detailing mitt that I got from Autogeek.net. I dry with a California Water Blade first, then use microfiber towels to finish up. I forgot what soap I used, but maybe that's the problem. It doesn't seem like it bubbles enough, if that makes any sense.

So do I need a machines to wax or just some good ol' elbow grease?

Your method sounds fine. Do be careful with the blade. Its fine to use but if you should happen to catch a peice of dirt or something (even very small and unseeable) it will add some very unwanted marring. Another thing to be carefull of is your drying. Not saying you do this, but if you use a lot of pressure you can induce marring/swirls even with a MF towel. Just let the towel do the work and don't press hard. The mit you use should be ok too, just make sure to rinse it often and check for anything stuck in it. This is what happens most often. Soap or suds hide the grime and you don't realize you've picked something up that could scratch the paint. Quality products alone won't do the job. Got to have quality practices too.
Good luck with it. Shoot me a PM if you have other questions or visit the detailing section of the forums. Also if you do end up wanting a pro detailer I have some contact in your area. Their not cheap tho

 

[Nokkers3]

Wow lots of great info here! Thanks to everyone that has contributed. I can see that I've made some mistakes with my washing/drying techniques. Practice makes perfect I guess.

 

[60181]

Use a good set of products and a decent buffer and practice your technique. Black is a b****, but afterwards, just use proper care techniques and you should be good to go.

Polishing:
Menzerna SIP, white lc pad, rotary
Optimum Poli-Seal, white lc pad, PC
Topped with Optimum Car Wax

Tools:
Makita 9227 rotary w/W66 backing plate
Porter Cable D/A

Before and after, where one half was masked off to show the details better.

 

[controlo]

=P

it wasnt swirl free per say. i was just aiming to remove the majority of the defects from the paint. It was my friends new 4runner, and the dealership had put a ton of damage in the paint. its my most recent detail (last week) so it was the closest picture in my photobucket w/o scrolling through the hundreds of pictures i have.

My point was that to even get it to that point is by machine polishing. Youll never see results like that on an entire car by hand.


dont make me post up my true swirl free before and afters =P

Holograms are the type of swirling that can be filled in and hidden. Holograms are extremely fine tiny marring left from a compound, or not letting a polish fully break down. But even still they might not be fully hidden. Ive ran into people who think holograms are good because they thnk it makes the paint shiny.

sadly, it doesn't surprise me.

 

[sunrun176]

One technique that helps reduce the visibility of the microfine scratches that constitute "swirl marks" is to not "swirl" when you wash and dry. In the previous picture, note that the most visible swirls are perpendicular to the angle that the light reflects off of the paint. Therefore, if you move your wash mitt and towels in relatively straight lines (say, in the direction that the wind moves across the car) instead of in circles you'll greatly reduce the number of angles from which the scratches can be seen. It's kind of like how polarized sunglasses work to reduce reflective glare by filtering out all of the light waves that travel in any direction but horizontal. (Note: You can reduce the incidence even further by blotting dry rather than wiping.)

And if you follow the other advice about using higher quality mitts (sheepskin is really good choice because the natural fibers aren't as strong as synthetic fibers, but well-made microfiber is okay) and towels (again, soft high quality all-cotton terry cloth towels are best, but well-made microfiber is okay, too) and only apply the absolute minimum amount of pressure required to clean and dry a given area, I think you'll be in good shape.

As for home scratch removal, Consumer Reports rated Quixx Scratch Remover as the best of all the OTC scratch and swirl removers at actually removing swirls and even reducing the visibility of scratches so deep you can just barely feel them with your fingernail (deeper than that and they recommend seeking professional help). But note that, since the kit comes with a strip of 3000-grit sand paper with which to wet sand the offending area, it takes great care and diligent adherence to the instructions or you could make the situation much worse, requiring professional repainting to fix. Also, it's very expensive at ~$21 for a 1.8oz bottle.

I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, partly because so far there aren't any significant swirls or scratches on Jazzy that are really upsetting (mostly 'cuz I'm the only one who can find 'em), and partly because I haven't found the stuff on store shelves (at least not at Target or Menard's.. Maybe I should try Pep Boys or Autozone (wink)). I'll point out that I also didn't put them there.. A well-meaning family member put them there while examining a speck of tar and trying to wipe it and the week's-worth of road dust away with their finger.. (no)(headshake <sigh>

Hope this helps. Time to sleep.

 

[ThrillRide]

One technique that helps reduce the visibility of the microfine scratches that constitute "swirl marks" is to not "swirl" when you wash and dry. In the previous picture, note that the most visible swirls are perpendicular to the angle that the light reflects off of the paint. Therefore, if you move your wash mitt and towels in relatively straight lines (say, in the direction that the wind moves across the car) instead of in circles you'll greatly reduce the number of angles from which the scratches can be seen. It's kind of like how polarized sunglasses work to reduce reflective glare by filtering out all of the light waves that travel in any direction but horizontal. (Note: You can reduce the incidence even further by blotting dry rather than wiping.)

Actually bro swirls don't have anything to do with circular motion necessarily. "Swirls" are nothing more than micro marring, and what causes the effect of 'spider webbing' or 'swirls' is the way light reflects off the edges. I have had several clients say to me they don't understand why they are still getting swirls because they wash in one direction. Doesn't matter. Poor equipment, bad tehnique and carelessness is the cause. While not washing in a circular motion might be ok its not the culprit. I can wash in a circle all day long and not get swirls, but thats because I do it for a living
Your note about blotting is a good idea. When I wash I use a no rinse formula. So when drying a take a plush MF and lightly dab up the water, which has encapsulated dirt. So the first MF sucks up the majority of water and left behind dirt. I then follow with a second towel for final dry.

 

[controlo]

Actually bro swirls don't have anything to do with circular motion necessarily. "Swirls" are nothing more than micro marring, and what causes the effect of 'spider webbing' or 'swirls' is the way light reflects off the edges. I have had several clients say to me they don't understand why they are still getting swirls because they wash in one direction. Doesn't matter. Poor equipment, bad tehnique and carelessness is the cause. While not washing in a circular motion might be ok its not the culprit. I can wash in a circle all day long and not get swirls, but thats because I do it for a living
Your note about blotting is a good idea. When I wash I use a no rinse formula. So when drying a take a plush MF and lightly dab up the water, which has encapsulated dirt. So the first MF sucks up the majority of water and left behind dirt. I then follow with a second towel for final dry.

i think what he meant was that it will be less visible that circular marring because the light can only hit it from one direction.

 

[ThrillRide]

i think what he meant was that it will be less visible that circular marring because the light can only hit it from one direction.

perhaps that could be true, if there were minimal amounts of swirling. But I can show you pics of customer cars that they "claim" to have washed and dried in a unidirectional pattern and never in circles, yet it looks the same.

 

[theurgy]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...q=how+to+wash+a+car&ei=0zwqSJKJJaLW-AGCkvHgCQ