Hydro Assist Fuel Cell

[hilmar2k]

You all can believe what you want but when you put it into perspective how are you justifying this power output must be more than power input??? If that's true then gasoline is the worst of them all... As you get nothing in return for burning it past the power it makes to power your vehicle...

I have personally seen this work... We're not talking about Hydrogen fuel cells here... They are doing the process backwards from what I was talking about... They are using hydrogen to create electricity to power an electric car... Whereas the hydrogen produced from water helps power a gasoline motor... making it more efficient. All you have to do is put gas in it and put water in the cell. Burning Hydrogen along w/ Gasoline is much more power and thus needs less fuel to accomplish it's task... I have seen this on a chevrolet full-size truck w/ the vortec V-8 that is now getting 28~32 mpg.... pretty amazing for a SBC.

The way everyone is doing it is running the Hydrogen into the air intake before the Intake manifold letting the gas mix with the air. Of course you need the gasoline to power the alternator to power the cell but lets face it, you have an infinite amount of 12V power from the alternator as long as the motor is running.

What I have seen is people are wiring up a switch to the power going to the fuel cell and turn it on when you are driving.... Turn it off when you are not... It's pretty simple and seems to work wonders.... Not in actually doing away with gasoline or as a new stand-alone power for vehicles but a nice way to increase fuel mileage in our bad gas burners.

You do realize that generating electricity actually puts a load on the engine, right? And the more you generate, the greater the load. There is no "infinite amount of 12V power". You can't get anything for free. Don't you think that if this actually worked, it would be on every news show? Gas prices are headline news every single day, and here we have a supposed source of free energy and no one knows about it? This one doesn't pass the smell test.

And let's not forget the physics on this one. There is an inherent loss with this. You cannot get 100% of the energy out that you put in. You get that, right? So you are using more energy to create the electricity to separate the hydrogen out of the water then you get by burning the hydrogen. How can this possibly work? Short answer....it can't.

 

[Shane5425]

just an fyi... there is no way you can create enough hydrogen from water to keep up with our cars..


watch mythbusters.. they tried it, they couldnt produce enough hydro from water fast enough to make a differance..

 

[MS3077]

Rotus8 is one very intelligent dude...

 

[Shane5425]

haha, i just went to http://www.preignitioncc.com/ps/index.htm , interesting concept, but i would need alot more prof than what they claim..

 

[Rotus]

Arguements of conservation of energy aside...

I went to the site where tey sell the HAFC. It seems to me they talk a bunch of buzzwords and bulls***.

"The Hydro Assist Fuel Cell is a combination of several known fuel saving technologies in conjunction with our very own computerized emission system optimizer."

So they use an interceptor that fools the ecu into leaning out the mixture.

"We also use six very powerful magnets that ionize the water in the reservoir and the gasoline in the gas tank to produce smaller molecules and separate their compounds into simple elements producing a cleaner more efficient burn. And, a specially formulated conditioner helps “crack” and vaporize your fuel as well as increases the life of your engine. A perfectly balanced mixture of hydrogen and oxygen, combined with fuel vaporization and ionization provide significantly increased mileage with the gasoline you are currently using."

OK, crack and ionize? Cracking is the process of refining crude oil into usuable items like kerosene, deisel, gasoline, etc. Ionizing the gas does nothing.

So the "fuel cell" part of this carp splits water into hydrogen and oxygen and adds that as a gas to your intake. They say the Hydrogen burns more powerfully than gas, which is true, but they also say that the Oxygen increases the effective octane rating of the gas, hich is total and complete bulls***. Octane rating is a resistance to preignition from compression induced heat. The higher the octane number, the less likely the gas is to ignite spontaneously before the spark. Adding Oxygen leans out your a/f ratio and make the gas more likely to preignite.

On these basis I would disqulify the HAFC as snake oil.

 

[MS3Buckeye]

Agreed

 

[hilmar2k]

The bottom line is this; these contraptions have been around for years, many, many years. Don't you think that if they worked, some auto maker would have installed them on their cars and sold many times more cars then they currently do? If Ford put these on all of their F150, 250, and 350 trucks, and it really doubled mileage, don't you think everyone who bought a full size truck would have bought a Ford?

If they worked, we'd all have one, end of story.

 

[Super Unique]

BMW actually has experiments running with gas/steam hybrids right now they are using the heat from the engine and exhaust to create steam, which provides assistance during high energy maneuvers like starting. also uses friction during braking to recover energy as heat. Interesting concept when everyone else is using battery powered hybrids. Think about it, no recurrent battery charging or replacements. Initial cost plus water through the life of the car. Supposedly the technology is quite promising.

 

[hilmar2k]

BMW actually has experiments running with gas/steam hybrids right now they are using the heat from the engine and exhaust to create steam, which provides assistance during high energy maneuvers like starting. also uses friction during braking to recover energy as heat. Interesting concept when everyone else is using battery powered hybrids. Think about it, no recurrent battery charging or replacements. Initial cost plus water through the life of the car. Supposedly the technology is quite promising.

And even that is only promising a mileage increase of about 15%. So the whole notion of burning hydrogen and doubling fuel mileage is just ludicrous.

 

[SPEEDYONE]

The bottom line is this; these contraptions have been around for years, many, many years. Don't you think that if they worked, some auto maker would have installed them on their cars and sold many times more cars then they currently do? If Ford put these on all of their F150, 250, and 350 trucks, and it really doubled mileage, don't you think everyone who bought a full size truck would have bought a Ford?

If they worked, we'd all have one, end of story.

I believe the reason why manufactures don't use this technology is because of the maintenance required. You have to examine the plates rather often to make sure they are not touching and also the distilled water need to be changed often.

Plus i am not much of a speculator but i think """"BIG OIL""" has a say in the reason why this technology is not used in todays automobiles. With oil companies making billions of dollars in profits i doubt they would want to start loosing any of those profits.,

 

[Rotus8]

I believe the reason why manufactures don't use this technology is because of the maintenance required. You have to examine the plates rather often to make sure they are not touching and also the distilled water need to be changed often.

Plus i am not much of a speculator but i think """"BIG OIL""" has a say in the reason why this technology is not used in todays automobiles. With oil companies making billions of dollars in profits i doubt they would want to start loosing any of those profits.,

You can believe what you want, but the laws of thermodynamics still apply.

1st law - You can't win.
2nd law - You can't even break even.
3rd law - You can't get out of the game.
4th law - No matter how hard you shake it, the last drop always goes in your pants.

 

[Nsane1]

One major reason this does not come on any vehicle is b/c of what is released when Hydrogen is burnt.... Not very environmentally friendly... I know it creates ozone and I want to believe it was nitrogen oxide. And if you don't know that ozone is a molecule... o3 and not just something over your head your an idiot.

cut this off a site I just found... This is for full conversion to run Hydrogen instead of gasoline.

The Automobile

While fuel cells will likely power many future clean vehicles, they are still several years away from mass production. Most of today’s internal combustion engine vehicles can be modified to run on hydrogen. Cars can then continue to use gasoline, or switch to hydrogen at the flip of a switch, making it possible to have uninterrupted travel when you are unable to find a hydrogen fueling station.

The most expensive part of a hydrogen conversion is the carbon fiber tank. A 5,000 psi tank can add $5,000-10,000 to the cost of a vehicle. The 10,000 psi tanks are still done one at a time, and can cost several times as much as a 5,000 psi tank. However, when enough hydrogen cars are being built, mass production will reduce component costs tremendously.

Compared to a fuel cell, the cost is still very close to that of a gasoline-powered automobile. For a comparison of HICEs (Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine) and Fuel Cells read the H2Nation article, The Hydrogen Fuel Cell vs. the Internal Combustion Engine Debate (pdf).

Conversion Companies

The following companies modify automobiles to run on hydrogen:

AFVTech

Hydrogen Vehicle Systems

Intergalactic Hydrogen

The Hydrogen Car Company

Quantum Technologies converts new Toyota Priuses to run on hydrogen.

For the Do It Yourselfer

Congratulations on your decision to convert your car to hydrogen. You are to be commended for your efforts to clean the air and reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Bear in mind that it is a complex endeavor, and for safety concerns, we do not endorse or recommend that you undertake such a conversion.

However, if you are serious about investigating doing your own conversion, we suggest attending the American Hydrogen Association Hydrogen Conversion Workshop. It is really essential to get this basic education about hydrogen before attempting a conversion. It is an excellent class, and will help to prepare you for converting all types of internal combustion engines to run on hydrogen, as well as provide very important training on hydrogen safety. You will receive two books that are full of information about car conversions: "The Philosopher Mechanic" and "Fuel From Water". There is also some useful information on the AHA web site, where they answer the question, Where do I buy a kit to convert my car to hydrogen?

One of our favorite books on hydrogen tells the history of some of the first automobile conversions in the U.S. "The World Hydrogen View", by Dr. Roger E. Billings, chronicles the trials and tribulations of his efforts at converting a number of vehicles. It is very insightful, and a pleasure to read..