i dont think the whole voltage thing makes any sense what so ever. if you have good results with just an in tank pump, hey you could be on to something. its just weird that all of the mazda specialists that make products for this car all have said that the in tank pump supplies plenty of fuel. now i am not arguing your results, i just dont understand them. the boost cut on this car IS 100% triggered by MAP voltage. every single place that tunes and mods them has said so. until myelf and driver311 used the MAP clamps, the most common pruduct was the ATP boost cut defender. it bleeds out boost to give lower voltage to the ecu. in the end it is the same result. i agree the car needs more fuel. i dont agree with the fact that with no other mods an in tank fuel pump will do away with all boost cut.
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How to fix ALL SPUTTER ISSUES!!!
- Thread starter driver311
- Start date
JumpingJackson
Member
Dude I have two amps in my car and a capacitor and never have I had an issue. my car has none of the signs you are describing. I have cold temps and Im pushing more boost than anyone on here. The theory is just a theory. I dont know what else to tell ya. Ive logged my voltage and its good.
Mazdaspeed3 is a different car from Mazdaspeed6. Just because you dont have a problem on your 3 doesnt mean it doesnt exist on a 6. Or even another Mazdaspeed3 for that matter.
Each car is different in that each has manufacturing variances and different enviromental factors.
Mazdaspeed3 is a different car from Mazdaspeed6. Just because you dont have a problem on your 3 doesnt mean it doesnt exist on a 6. Or even another Mazdaspeed3 for that matter.
Each car is different in that each has manufacturing variances and different enviromental factors.
Sweet thanks for the clarification. Ill be waiting for someone to disprove my theory. (cheers)
ATE BALLER
Member
- :
- MAZDASPEED 6
Dude I have two amps in my car and a capacitor and never have I had an issue. my car has none of the signs you are describing. I have cold temps and Im pushing more boost than anyone on here. The theory is just a theory. I dont know what else to tell ya. Ive logged my voltage and its good.
It could be that the ecu itself is not able to handle the power requirements. You could run more voltage through a stream of my piss than the ~16g wire feeding it. You're blowing alot of hot air at 22psi on this turbo too. Be careful man.
i dont think the whole voltage thing makes any sense what so ever. if you have good results with just an in tank pump, hey you could be on to something. its just weird that all of the mazda specialists that make products for this car all have said that the in tank pump supplies plenty of fuel. now i am not arguing your results, i just dont understand them. the boost cut on this car IS 100% triggered by MAP voltage. every single place that tunes and mods them has said so. until myelf and driver311 used the MAP clamps, the most common pruduct was the ATP boost cut defender. it bleeds out boost to give lower voltage to the ecu. in the end it is the same result. i agree the car needs more fuel. i dont agree with the fact that with no other mods an in tank fuel pump will do away with all boost cut.
Unfortunately, all the Mazda specialists have absolutely no experience with direct injection. In fact they learn more from these forums than they do in thier own research. Remember, we are the ones putting our cars on the line here, while they sit back, read, and play with a car once a month. There is no such thing as boost cut on this motor. It's a fuel cut based on the fact that the stock fuel system runs short at what happens to be ~18psi on most cars. If it gets colder, the clamp has to be lowered. If you add high flow mods, the clamp has to be lowered. That kind of proves that there is no program in the ecu that says "If I see 18psi, I'm gonna piss in this guys cheerios". It is without a doubt 100% a fuel cut. The map clamp just pushes it back. That can be bad in open loop where the ecu NEEDS to know the map to make it's speed-density calculations.
redrocketz
Member
um yeah we actually figured out alot without any help from people on this forum. That is not to say that there aren't intelligent people on here but to say that we have no experience with these cars is pretty bold. We built one of the fastest Speed6's out there without help from people on these forums.
We figured out that the car cannot be tuned properly with that POS ATP BCD, thanks to the hours upon hours of tuning time we spent on the car. We get things developed for this car. We help out guys on here like you wont believe. We do put our reputations on the line all the time.
Oh and Jason has a system in his car aswell and doesn't have issues.
We figured out that the car cannot be tuned properly with that POS ATP BCD, thanks to the hours upon hours of tuning time we spent on the car. We get things developed for this car. We help out guys on here like you wont believe. We do put our reputations on the line all the time.
Oh and Jason has a system in his car aswell and doesn't have issues.
ATE BALLER
Member
- :
- MAZDASPEED 6
Sorry, I should clarify what I was saying. None of the tuners for this car have PREVIOUS experience with di motors. Not saying you guys don't do good work or anything, just that this is just as new to you guys as it is to us. It's been pretty well known that the ATP BCD was a POS since it started getting in customers' hands. I had the first one sold, and it didn't work at all. They sent me a "revised" version which also didn't work, although it helped (a little). You guys do good work and to date, you guys have tuned the most out of a ms6. Is it up to the potential of his set up? Maybe not, but that's up to the customer. Is it commendable? Of coarse, it's been the top dog for a good amount of time.
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ATE BALLER
Member
- :
- MAZDASPEED 6
From Forrestang on the other forum:
"I seemed to have a consistant drop in fuel pressure on my dyno day.....the one where I hit 321whp and the car completely s*** on itself.
Voltage dropped considerably.....these are logs from my EMS, so ignore the units. You can see the drop in voltage....which corresponded to a drop in fuel pressure......which also led to the reduction in timing allowed by the ECU.
I think getting this pump a consistant voltage will do a lot."
He also included this (if I can get it to work):
http://forum .mazda 6 club .com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=32444
There's your proof of voltage dropping off during an actual fuel cut event.
"I seemed to have a consistant drop in fuel pressure on my dyno day.....the one where I hit 321whp and the car completely s*** on itself.
Voltage dropped considerably.....these are logs from my EMS, so ignore the units. You can see the drop in voltage....which corresponded to a drop in fuel pressure......which also led to the reduction in timing allowed by the ECU.
I think getting this pump a consistant voltage will do a lot."
He also included this (if I can get it to work):
http://forum .mazda 6 club .com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=32444
There's your proof of voltage dropping off during an actual fuel cut event.
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redrocketz
Member
Sorry, I should clarify what I was saying. None of the tuners for this car have PREVIOUS experience with di motors. Not saying you guys don't do bad work or anything, just that this is just as new to you guys as it is to us. It's been pretty well known that the ATP BCD was a POS since it started getting in customers' hands. I had the first one sold, and it didn't work at all. They sent me a "revised" version which also didn't work, although it helped (a little). You guys do good work and to date, you guys have tuned the most out of a ms6. Is it up to the potential of his set up? Maybe not, but that's up to the customer. Is it commendable? Of coarse, it's been the top dog for a good amount of time.
OK that makes better sense. And is Jason's car at it's potential? Yes and No. The car could make more power but we want to keep the car safe. It is his main means of transportation and he is getting married very soon so we can't go blowing his s*** up just yet. We want to try to install a MAP clamp after the Exede so that the Exede can see the real readings and tune for them then still lie to the ECU in terms of the MAP votlage. Will it work god only knows at this point. We had a lengthy discussion with another reputable tuner about this. in theory you can tune everything with the Exede and ignore the ECU basically what a Piggyback is doing, sending whatever signal you want it to.
Other things on the horizon for the Speed6? Oh hell yes just wait and see.
um yeah we actually figured out alot without any help from people on this forum. That is not to say that there aren't intelligent people on here but to say that we have no experience with these cars is pretty bold. We built one of the fastest Speed6's out there without help from people on these forums.
We figured out that the car cannot be tuned properly with that POS ATP BCD, thanks to the hours upon hours of tuning time we spent on the car. We get things developed for this car. We help out guys on here like you wont believe. We do put our reputations on the line all the time.
Oh and Jason has a system in his car aswell and doesn't have issues.
I bite my lip every time I hear about the fastest speed6 out there
a speed 6 with xede and a GT turbo running just a **** hair under a flat 13 second time slip is nothing to brag about
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- :
- 2007 MS3
"**** hair"(uhm) lol awsome
At least he didn't specify the color. We should be grateful for small favors.
redrocketz
Member
I bite my lip every time I hear about the fastest speed6 out there
a speed 6 with xede and a GT turbo running just a **** hair under a flat 13 second time slip is nothing to brag about
well lets see you do better. these damn factory ECU's really limit what you can do.
remember the car is still on the factory Fuel system also. So as soon as we put on the pump and Manifold back to the Dyno for more fun time.
- :
- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
I bite my lip every time I hear about the fastest speed6 out there
a speed 6 with xede and a GT turbo running just a **** hair under a flat 13 second time slip is nothing to brag about
considering there are no speed6s doing a **** hair better than our **** hair, tuned by anyone else or making the same WHP, i'd say thats ample room to brag. and we've managed to do it without blowing a stock motor for well over 15,000 miles on the mods and boost level. so bite your lip and make high school remarks all you want, because at the end of the day neither yours or anyone else's mazdaspeed6 is at this point.
i challenge people and hell i welcome people to push this car beyond that and will be the first in the line to pat the champ on the back when it happens.
ATE BALLER
Member
- :
- MAZDASPEED 6
i challenge people and hell i welcome people to push this car beyond that and will be the first in the line to pat the champ on the back when it happens.
Working on it. (shady)
- :
- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
Working on it. (shady)
you still want to try out those diff mounts for me?
ATE BALLER
Member
- :
- MAZDASPEED 6
I just ordered that beefy front rear diff mount from turbine tech as well as that crazy 4th engine mount they made. That probably won't be here until mid-late febuary. Aren't you guys doing the rear rear diff mount though? The horse-shoe looking one? I'm down cause I want to upgrade both mounts and I'll have it all apart back there anyway. Let me know.
I decided to put it all in one thread. After alot of time and work I think I have this figured out. Here it is simple as I can put it.
Boost cut fix= map clamp, clamped at 3-3.5v
Fuel cut fix= cdfp, either pg, cpe
spark sputter fix= NGK LTR7IX-11 (1 step colder) gapped at .030 and coil wire stretch.
Ill add one more thing that was just addressed in another thread that I overlooked and agree with completely. Replace all your hose clamps with t-bolt clamps and make sure all are tightened and sealed. Boost leaks are your enemy on all cars boosted especially maf cars.
My car has zero issues with any kind of cut/sputter right now and is pulling all the way to 6500rpms. Temps where I live is around 10-30 degrees and Im running 20+psi all day long. I hope this will help alot of people better understand what issues we are having with the car and how to fix them. Enjoy
I am just now beginning to deal with the "sputter" or high boost/RPM hesitation issue in a CX-7, so all this information is greatly appreciated. Could I ask a question or two?
How did you arrive at the voltage clamp numbers of 3-3.5v for the MAP sensor? Does the MAP sensor read from 0 to 5v, 0 to 8v? I am assuming it's the 0-5v range, but if you know differently please share that info.
As for the CX-7's problem, it started immediately after adding the 3" Quickpipe and 3" dual cat-back exhaust system by CP-E. The motor just won't pull hard in 3rd and 4th gears at WOT, it stutters, and stumbles from either a fuel cut or boost cut (maybe both), until I am forced to let off the throttle.
I have been advised by TurboSmart to use their Fuel Cut Defender 2, which I assume works similarly to the MAP clamp you're using. Are you familiar with that product?
My CX-7 has: ETS 3" TMIC, TurboSmart Dual Port BOV (recirc. mode), 5-ply boost hoses, CP-E CAI, CP-E Quickpipe & SS Dual Cat-back muffler system (3" T-304 system, no 2nd cat). It never had a stutter/stumble issue until I added the Quickpipe, eliminating the 2nd cat, and that's when the trouble began. I am installing a DashHawk tomorrow so I can have hard data on what is going on, but so far I apparently have a fuel cut issue from the MAP sensor noting over-boost from the new exhaust system's power equation role...ie the new 3" piping is allowing the turbo to spin more, and faster, and it's probably putting out 3-4 pounds extra boost, according to TurboSmart sources.
I'll know exactly what it's doing after I get the DashHawk installed.
I am running stock boost, no boost controller (yet), but the motor is apparently now putting out more than it used to do, hence the fuel cut by the MAP sensor. Do you think that I need the upgraded fuel pump, or will the problem go away with the MAP clamp?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
it is a 5V map sensor. i have mine clamped at 3.9V . i dont feel you need to go as low as 3.5 or less. with my tests i saw that 3.9V is about 16.5 psi. if you still cut at that point you know you have a fuel issue. that is my problem as of now. the ecu sees 16.5 psi, i actually have 19psi. the car pulls solid for a few seconds then it sputters and cuts out. i just ordered my pluds from PG today. i will change them in a few weeks when my new TRZ intercooler gets here. i am giving PG a few more weeks to work out their CDFP issues. if they dont move forwars, i will just get one from "mrlilguy".
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