I know you aren't baggin on me(lol, I have no idea what that means except for out of context). And really wouldn't care if you were, it would take a lot more than saying I didn't pay what I paid for my car. However, Let me simplify my previous statement in saying that when we sat down to do the #'s, we worked backwards to get the out the door price to be the sticker price. You have to realize also that in the beginning, dealers were trying to make money off the demand, but I told one dealer, who didn't get my business, that he was selling a 4cyl. station wagon, and to have a reality check. When the gave me the first quote, it was somewhere in the 19-20k range. I laughed and asked him, and I quote "Is that in ******* YEN? Cause that ain't American dollars!" He told me it was a hot item, and I told him that his hot item will sit on the lot forever at that price. He also told me I couldn't find one on the East Coast cheaper. So when I bought mine @ 17,500 OTD, I drove to that dealer that day in my new car, showed him the sales slip, and made him feel like an ass. We all payed about the same for our cars, couple hundred more or less across the board, in some instances, some got burnt for thousands for yellow paint(which has no surcharge,BTW). But when they first come out, you see it on TV or the first one shows up on the lot, you have to be careful. When they see young (I'm 23) guys come in, saying "ahhh this is nice, i like it, looks cool, etc.," they know they gotcha. Some people get so wrapped up in new cars they could sell you a bag of dog crap for 5K and you would think it is the best thing since sex. You have to be careful w/ car dealers, they may act like your buddy when you are talking to them, but they work for the almighty dollar just like you and I.