Outlawstar98
Member
- :
- 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege / 2013 BRZ
How does the MSP handle compared too...
- Thread starter BlueWolfCry
- Start date
I'm pretty damn sure the rsx has a 2840lb curb weight just like the msp, and also the srt-4 acr.....both my bro and friend have these cars....both very nice, but the rsx with suspension mods like my bro's, untouchable in the corners.....
Outlawstar98
Member
- :
- 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege / 2013 BRZ
RSX (type S) - 2840lbs
MSP - 2843lbs
Go to msn.com
than go to autos. thats the stats
SRT-4 - 2900lbs
MSP - 2843lbs
Go to msn.com
than go to autos. thats the stats
SRT-4 - 2900lbs
I have to disagree there. AWD certainly helps traction under many cercumstances. There is a reason that mitsubishi subaru and nissan all use it in thier top performance cars. Non of them were designed to be drag racers and all use complex control systems to get every thing possible out of the AWD.
Some cars actualy let you feel the AWD working when you push a car hard enough through the twistys.
I feel that AWD is just extra weight. Nothing beats a proper RWD setup. But I do respect your opinion.
In the local street-prepped track series (race-track, mind you... but more technical than high speed), prepped front drivers often post quicker times than prepped AWD cars.
An AWD car has awesome grip, and you can get some awfully good slip angles out of an AWD car in a corner drift... but on the race-track, the racing line is still (and always will be) the fastest way through the corner... and an AWD is often heavier and more understeer-y in the tightest corners.
Outright lap records for street cars on the most technical tracks we have over here are often in the hands of lightweight turbo-charged Hondas. Hell... they're even starting to make a mark in the autocross and slalom series... one slalom event was won by a well-prepped Civic hatchback... this is against a hardcore field of RWD Toyota Starlets (1000 lbs + rollcage + full TRD set-up + straight pipe = wicked).
Cornering is suspension, suspension, suspension. FWD-AWD-RWD just dictates when and how hard you can get back on the gas.
Of course, in this case, FWD sucks balls... but a good set-up can mitigate this. Anybody who argues that RWD is better because you can use the throttle to rotate the car has to bear in mind that F1 has traction control for a reason... you can definitely have too much of a good thing.
An AWD car has awesome grip, and you can get some awfully good slip angles out of an AWD car in a corner drift... but on the race-track, the racing line is still (and always will be) the fastest way through the corner... and an AWD is often heavier and more understeer-y in the tightest corners.
Outright lap records for street cars on the most technical tracks we have over here are often in the hands of lightweight turbo-charged Hondas. Hell... they're even starting to make a mark in the autocross and slalom series... one slalom event was won by a well-prepped Civic hatchback... this is against a hardcore field of RWD Toyota Starlets (1000 lbs + rollcage + full TRD set-up + straight pipe = wicked).
Cornering is suspension, suspension, suspension. FWD-AWD-RWD just dictates when and how hard you can get back on the gas.
Of course, in this case, FWD sucks balls... but a good set-up can mitigate this. Anybody who argues that RWD is better because you can use the throttle to rotate the car has to bear in mind that F1 has traction control for a reason... you can definitely have too much of a good thing.
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In the local street-prepped track series (race-track, mind you... but more technical than high speed), prepped front drivers often post quicker times than prepped AWD cars.
An AWD car has awesome grip, and you can get some awfully good slip angles out of an AWD car in a corner drift... but on the race-track, the racing line is still (and always will be) the fastest way through the corner... and an AWD is often heavier and more understeer-y in the tightest corners.
Outright lap records for street cars on the most technical tracks we have over here are often in the hands of lightweight turbo-charged Hondas. Hell... they're even starting to make a mark in the autocross and slalom series... one slalom event was won by a well-prepped Civic hatchback... this is against a hardcore field of RWD Toyota Starlets (1000 lbs + rollcage + full TRD set-up + straight pipe = wicked).
Cornering is suspension, suspension, suspension. FWD-AWD-RWD just dictates when and how hard you can get back on the gas.
Very interesting. Thanks (yes)
You'd need to install stiffer struts and springs. A rear strut bar helps to bring the rear end even more together. Very easy and solid mod.
Guys, we forgot to mention the Celica GTS as a contender. I believe it was Whiteline who was able to achieve a 76mph in the slalom with a few suspension mods!
The MS proto really wouldnt need a rear STB it allready has a piece of the unibody structure there. Only the wagon has room.
Yeah I'm bumping a month dead thread.
I have one, and believe me it's a very noticeable difference especially over bumps. I removed the subwoofer rack and used the mounting points on the sides of the strut towers to mount a bar. AWR made a custom bar for the sedans at one point. Mine is a copy of that, but I used a larger diameter tube.
Ahhhhh..... You've hit the beauty of the R... it rewards the driver who knows how to drive (it) properly. It is often compared as the front wheel drive version of the front wheel driver version of the E30 BMW M3 and as the greatest front wheel drive car ever produced.
I know. I am probably pissing on everyone's cheerios here, but there is something special about that car that few people get to know. The car has soul. It is how the engine, chassis, and suspension work in unison to achieve something greater than the sum of the parts.
Below are a couple links to reviews from a UK magazine called EVO (no, not as in lancer).
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/205577/honda_integra.html
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1770114
http://www.itrsport.com/reviews.html
On the street, the MSP is a much more livable car. The biggest flaw with the thought of owning a type r is that if you drive it on the street, it's stolen. It isn't a matter of if, but when.
On the auto-x course, the cars are close, but the nod goes to the type-r. The car is so pure and engaging to the driver. Correct car setup allows the driver to use the car to articulate manuevers that aren't possible in other cars and shouldn't be possible in a front wheel drive car. The car weighed 2470 lbs. with an eigth of a tank of gas in autocross trim. If I had another 2-3K to prep the car, the car could have been under 2400 lbs. in stock class (DS). I The biggest downside of the R is the "tug-boat" slow steering rack. The MSP is a shark in the slaloms; it's much faster than the R stock for this part of autocrossing. The downsides to the MSP in auto-x were the diff that allows the inside front tire to spin (and then it brakes), the mid-range spike in power (bad for auto-x), and the shifter that pops out of 2nd under very hard braking (also bad for auto-x).
On the track the MSP really fell flat and disappointed me. In the MSP, I got walked by a stock 99 civic si on the straights after only one lap at Grattan Raceway in Michigan (due to a heat soaked intercooler). It was faster in the turns, but not really fun. That day was the first day I drove an R. I sold the MSP one month later, when I found a clean R. I autocrossed and tracked the R for the next two years. It was the most fun I have ever had on the track. And, it probably will be until I can afford a Z06.
The truth is, the Type R is not a fast straight line car; but if that is what you want, go buy a mustang or camero as they are much faster for the money. The magic of the Type R is in the turns... The straights are just where you wait for the next turn!
I now daily drive a Protege5 and autocross a Miata. The Miata is a fun car, however, it lacks the soul of the R...
Yeah, I'm a bit biased (so I am putting on the flame-suit now).
Cheers! (cheers)
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