Help! WRX 440cc injectors?

[Sleepy]

OK, I don't have an MSP (I'm putting together an MSP based kit), but I think some of you guys use these injectors.

I have some injectors supposedly out of an 03 WRX that have been cleaned and tested. The flow rate came out at 120cc. I wondered if there had been a mixup and the flow rate might be 120cc/15sec = 480cc/min, so I installed them to see what would happen. It started and ran lean briefly until the PCM corrected. Then I switched it to open loop with no correction factors in the fuel map (The emanage ultimate allows me to switch between open/closed loop at will). It ran very lean and needed 20-30% increase in duty cycle.

They have a slightly longer nozzle than mine and the top seal deformed significantly when installed. They didn't come with bottom seals, the ones the shop gave might just be too thick.

They have stamped on them: D, G, 16, 123, 3920.

Impedance 13.3 ohms.

They each have 12 tiny holes in the nozzle, which has a flat surface, unlike those pictured in protege garage's photo of WRX injectors.

Am I doing something wrong or are these not WRX injectors?

 

[Brian MP5T]

You should not run these on a stock ECU.

You need to be able to ring them back or the car will constantly run like s*** and rich.

Normally this is the type of modification that you would get Dyno Tuned.

 

[Sleepy]

The problem is that it runs LEAN with the new injectors. Wouldn't this suggest the new injectors are too small?

The emanage ultimate allows for upgraded injectors. Just tell it the flow of the original and old injectors and it compensates automatically. This shows up on the datalogger as a difference between the injector input and output dutycycles. I first tried entering 440cc (barely ran), then 235cc (ran lean) and finally 120cc (ran but WBO2 wouldn't complete its heatup cycle). Something it asks for is the lag time of the injectors, which I don't know, so left blank. Could this be a factor?

 

[orng1]

If you are adding 20-30% more duty cycle then these are the wrong injectors. It should be 20-30% less fuel with bigger injectors. See if you can get your money back, if possible.

 

[Sleepy]

If you are adding 20-30% more duty cycle then these are the wrong injectors. It should be 20-30% less fuel with bigger injectors. See if you can get your money back, if possible.

Since I spent AUD $191 on getting them cleaned and tested, I want to be ABSOLUTELY SURE I'm not just doing something wrong. Can't see the seller paying me for the testing.

 

[Micah]

I have these:

<TABLE height=172 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=400 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle height=6>STI 565cc Injectors</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle height=166>The STI 565cc injectors are OE Subaru high-performance injectors found on the high horsepower STI, STI-RA, and S202 Impreza models. These injectors are factory rated at 525cc but because of the common "under-rating" system of Japanese manufacturers, these injectors have been independently tested to flow 565cc. We recommend the use of these injectors for applications of 240whp-300whp. A very good compliment for all IHI VF-series turbos. *1 year limited warranty
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Captain KRM P5]

if you post a picture of the injectors you have i will tell you right away if you have the 440cc WRX ones

 

[Speed_Racer]

I have the same ones (pink Sti), under no circumstance should you have to add fuel after changing over to wrx 440s. especially on your application (1.8 N/A).

therefore the problem is either mechanical (injectors) or electrical (engine management)

 

[Sleepy]

I don't have a digital camera for photos, so it would take a while to get pictures. They look just like the pink one above, except for being blue and the tip is flat with 12 tiny holes. I have found pictures that look identical, but the quality prevents me comparing the numbers on them. Does anyone have a 440cc that they could check the writing on and compare with the first post? ie. D, G, 16, 123, 3920.

 

[Micah]

I just went and dug out the box for my WRX, stock turbo - check, fuel injectors - check, other s*** - check.

I don't feel like taking pics, they look identical to the pinks just blue. Yep, 12 holes patterned 2,4,4,2, numbers on one side 21 in top box 123 in middle box and 3920 in bottom box, on other side D in top box and F or G(2 with F and 2 with G) in bottom box.

These came out of my 2002 WRX.

 

[Rush]

For those of you that have the STi pinks -- what type of system are you running? On the stock MSP turbo, aren't the pinks a bit excessive?

I'm looking into getting a set of the stock WRX 440cc injectors, cause I don't believe I'll need more than that for the setup I'll be running.

Sorry for the threadjack.

 

[Brian MP5T]

For those of you that have the STi pinks -- what type of system are you running? On the stock MSP turbo, aren't the pinks a bit excessive?

I'm looking into getting a set of the stock WRX 440cc injectors, cause I don't believe I'll need more than that for the setup I'll be running.

Sorry for the threadjack.

Correct,

The further away from stock you go, the harsher the idle will be. The large injectors are not as good at moderating small fuel requirements. You could run small injectors and one or two large ones that are controlled independantly. Best of both worlds. Nice low RPM and no leaning out.

Sounds like your plan is the best for your situation.

 

[ho bag]

Well stock tsi's run 450cc injectors and there a 2l with a fairly small turbo...

440cc should be fine but you will need at the very least a dsm afc. Megasquirt would be better but the dsmafc shoudl get you going.

 

[Sleepy]

I just went and dug out the box for my WRX, stock turbo - check, fuel injectors - check, other s*** - check.

I don't feel like taking pics, they look identical to the pinks just blue. Yep, 12 holes patterned 2,4,4,2, numbers on one side 21 in top box 123 in middle box and 3920 in bottom box, on other side D in top box and F or G(2 with F and 2 with G) in bottom box.

These came out of my 2002 WRX.

Hey, thanks, thats what I was after. Same as mine except top box 16 instead of 21 and also each one has different letter in bottom box other side- E, F, G, H. So the only real difference is the 16. What that means I have no idea!

 

[Sleepy]

Good news. I now look like an idiot with a car pumping clouds of black smoke and running like a 3 legged dog.

I reinstalled the injectors, this time not in a shopping center carpark at night in a hurry. They now work fine!?

I still don't know what was wrong, either a bad seal/vacuum leak or possibly the EM2 playing up AGAIN. 4 times already it seems to have forgotten the new settings, causing stumbling loss of power with AFRs of 9:1. Lots more tuning to do yet, but at least the injectors are pumping heaps of fuel.

Thanks everyone, for your input.

I have apologised to the seller, who I did not name or post as a scammer just in case I (or the EM2)was doing something wrong. Whew!

 

[Brian MP5T]

Air in the system the first time???

 

[Sleepy]

Maybe, I don't know. Learning this stuff as I go. Just glad its working now. They seem to be bit more difficult to tune but it will be months before the turbo goes in. I'm trying to get as much as possible installed (MSP radiator, condensor etc) and working trouble free before the actual MSP turbo kit goes in.

 

[Karna]

the wrx injectors i bought are the same as the pink ones but just green color...are those not the 440???

 

[Maxx Mazda]

For those of you that have the STi pinks -- what type of system are you running? On the stock MSP turbo, aren't the pinks a bit excessive?

I'm looking into getting a set of the stock WRX 440cc injectors, cause I don't believe I'll need more than that for the setup I'll be running.

Sorry for the threadjack.

I'm running a Haltech E6X. I think the 440's are good to about 16psi, but I'm shooting for 22-24 this summer on race gas, so I went big.

Also, the car runs fine on stock ECU and 440's while in closed loop. The car tunes around them, but for open loop you need fuel control.