Head Work and Custom Cams
- Thread starter twilightprotege
- Start date
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
yeah i have so many things to do to get the full benefit outta the head and cam work. cam gears would be first on the list. try and bring the peak hp down into the current rev range.
next would be the haltech ecu.
maybe after that getting the crank knife edged and lightened and get new rods (pistons can stay untill i go turbo)
damn need money!!!!
next would be the haltech ecu.
maybe after that getting the crank knife edged and lightened and get new rods (pistons can stay untill i go turbo)
damn need money!!!!
I think part of the problem(not seeing the horspower) is that you have done things in the wrong order. Not a very bad thing though. 
. BUT normaly you would do the exhaust starting with the header first. this will give you gains right away. How much we really don't know. Then the rest of the exhaust. then once that end is freed up you can do the intake, head and cams. That way when you make chnages on the inside of the motor you will see the best results. Having a restrictive exhaust now is not only hampering the mods you have done but you will also gain some on top of that.. So we really don't know how well all the headwork and cams did until the exhaust is done. Just cause everything breaths good on the inside if you rerstrict it at the exhaust all is lost.. wll not all but lots.. Are you going to be doing the exhaust soon. Or will you just get the turbo then do the exhaust??? TTY
. BUT normaly you would do the exhaust starting with the header first. this will give you gains right away. How much we really don't know. Then the rest of the exhaust. then once that end is freed up you can do the intake, head and cams. That way when you make chnages on the inside of the motor you will see the best results. Having a restrictive exhaust now is not only hampering the mods you have done but you will also gain some on top of that.. So we really don't know how well all the headwork and cams did until the exhaust is done. Just cause everything breaths good on the inside if you rerstrict it at the exhaust all is lost.. wll not all but lots.. Are you going to be doing the exhaust soon. Or will you just get the turbo then do the exhaust??? TTYThen get the haltec to bring it all together. Dialing in the cams with adjustable gears I don't think would do you any good until you finish the exhaust cause you won't be able to dial them in efectively. Your whole hp and torque range will be affected by the exhaust as well. I don't think you should have to rev it past 6500. You are just putting too much stress on the engine at that point.. Sorry fo rambling here guys.... The problem is breathing... TTY
TTYflat_black
Member
I had a feeling this was going to be the cast when you got the new head on... Flowing the heck out of the head is really something that fully built cars do, only so they can safely flow at higher-than-redline points, too. But another bet would be the substandard ECU programming. =/
Hopefully some good will come of these new upgrades! Any idea how much the cam gears'll set you back?
Hopefully some good will come of these new upgrades! Any idea how much the cam gears'll set you back?
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
im thinkin with cam gears you should squeeze another 6-10hp out of those cams easy, especially with the lift and duration you have i would doubt making more than 10 with the gears, maybe 15+. mostly since the cam gears will help flow through the head as much as the cams themselves if im thinkin of this right.
then tha haltech will be the icing on the cake for you.
then tha haltech will be the icing on the cake for you.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Andy, save every penny you can and get the standalone...You will be amazed by the gains...and actually your gains are right around what I would guess without tuning....I don't know exactly what kind of total gains you could get after the tuning, but your could easily beat 130whp I would bet...then deal with the exhuast system...With cam gears you could probably dial the powerband down a thousand rpm or so..In which case you would be peaking within the current rev range (rather than just starting to make big gains on redline)...That would better justify your cams with the current rev range...But with the ECU you could set a soft rev limit at around 7300 rpm, where you could see very very significant power...
Also, did the dyno guy take the car over redline at all? Was he trying to get close to the fuel cut, or just taking it to the marked 6500?
Also, did the dyno guy take the car over redline at all? Was he trying to get close to the fuel cut, or just taking it to the marked 6500?
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Re: Guess you really believe you are the man !! ha!!
Easy dude...I don't think Ed was directing the bruce Willis thing at you...The last post on the 5th page was what he was pointing it at I think...And when ED quoted your other post a few days ago, it was simply that it was difficult to understand a little...never take Ed's s*** personally, he is always there to nail someone's mistake...And he will do it to anyone though, but overall it is needed to keep ignorance at bay (read that post on the last page)
green MP3 said:
Easy dude...I don't think Ed was directing the bruce Willis thing at you...The last post on the 5th page was what he was pointing it at I think...And when ED quoted your other post a few days ago, it was simply that it was difficult to understand a little...never take Ed's s*** personally, he is always there to nail someone's mistake...And he will do it to anyone though, but overall it is needed to keep ignorance at bay (read that post on the last page)
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
curt - yeah i've done everything in this order for 1 main reason. i'm going turbo down the track. i'm not going to be putting money at stuff i'm going to have to change when i go turbo. and yes that is a bit restrictive. i may get an awr header and full exhaust before i go turbo, but that all depends on finance i guess...
flat - well the only cam gears available are through tri-point. i think they are $250-300 or something like that. havent really investigated into them yet
install - i'm going to aim for early next year get cam gears, then by the end of next year have a standalone. the problem is i want to de-loom the engine bay while i'm at it. so getting a standalone will be cheap, but it's everything else that'll cost a fair bit. but at the moment that's where i'm heading. cam gears then haltech.
all - i'll have a friend of mine scan in the dyno graph tomorrow and i'll post it here to show you what the graph looks like
flat - well the only cam gears available are through tri-point. i think they are $250-300 or something like that. havent really investigated into them yet
install - i'm going to aim for early next year get cam gears, then by the end of next year have a standalone. the problem is i want to de-loom the engine bay while i'm at it. so getting a standalone will be cheap, but it's everything else that'll cost a fair bit. but at the moment that's where i'm heading. cam gears then haltech.
all - i'll have a friend of mine scan in the dyno graph tomorrow and i'll post it here to show you what the graph looks like
omg..its so obvious why his gains were so low...If he had a decent exhaust maybe he could take advantage of the increased flow. also i really think that u had the cams ground too aggressively. either way though i bet those things could be done easily. What u should do is put the old cams back in and dyno it and see what happens.
DooMer_MP3
Member
I appreciate TheMAN's information quite a bit. But sometimes I think he needs a good ass-kicking to put him in his place.
Chris
Chris
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
fyi everyone - if i were to put an exhaust straight on the car now, i'd loose even more power low end and gain even more right at and above redline. at this stage without cam gears or a standalone ecu, the stock exhaust is actually helping me get usuable power
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
the first cat is what is saving you alot of your low end torque i would think as that is the first and biggest restriction, but the stock exhaust will also help to keep some back pressure obviously.
When I get my cam ground the specs will prob be a couple notches short of what you got, just a little more than Jspec/MS specs i hope. I still have alot of research to do on those final numbers though.
and I need to find someone local to do the grind.
When I get my cam ground the specs will prob be a couple notches short of what you got, just a little more than Jspec/MS specs i hope. I still have alot of research to do on those final numbers though.
and I need to find someone local to do the grind.
installshield....
it does NOT sucks....all you need is some tunning, im sure you can get 30more HP out of it.
Im surprised you had 113whp at redline, that means theres a lot more power unleashed in the rest of the powerband and in redline.
Get some exhaust work, go standalone if you can, adjustable sprokets, etc.
remember the proteges in the scca have 260HP thanks to the motec and some internals.
it does NOT sucks....all you need is some tunning, im sure you can get 30more HP out of it.
Im surprised you had 113whp at redline, that means theres a lot more power unleashed in the rest of the powerband and in redline.
Get some exhaust work, go standalone if you can, adjustable sprokets, etc.
remember the proteges in the scca have 260HP thanks to the motec and some internals.
yeah but he already has hi-comp pistons...9.7 fp pistons. And honestly u wont lose really any backpressure. First the initial cat has already been gutted. ALso i have seen dyno #'s where a simple exhaust and intake netted more whp than cams alone with no exhaust. If the air that is coming in isnt discharged properly u wont see the full benefits of the port and polish and cams. I really really suggest that u put an exhaust on the car. Also i think its odd that your power only comes in at the high end of the rpm spectrum. I have much less done to my car and i have seen gains from 2.5k and up. And in my experience with my setup i saw minimal loss of power and torque in the low end and the high end 3k + just exploded. Really i think the standalone is unneccessary and i am sayin this so u can save yourself 1000+ aussie dollars. Trust me the exhaust is definately the next step. a 2.25 or 2.5 cat back would probably gain you 20+whp with your current setup.....also the car will rev much more quickly...currently you probably have alot fo turbulence int he gutted cat since the exhaust cant funnelt eh gasses out fast enough. peace
My axle back exhaust will be in wedsday, hopefully I will get to dyno shortly after my car gets out of the body shop.Never took the intake or head off.... BUT... had trouble with valve train noise and CEL. No solution for CEL and valve train noise solution would be expensive but would probably be cheaper than head/intake work.
http://mazdamp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?threadid=9590
http://mazdamp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?threadid=9590
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
igdrasil said:
I don't really understand what you mean...On your post on page five, you said there is no more power to gain with higher revs? Now you are saying that there is more power within his current power band?...And also I never said that his power sucks, I expected the gains he got with the stock ECU...
His power band currently starts right at redline, from what it sounds...With the cam gears he can dial the cams in for the powerband to begin earlier...so in short have a much higher peak gain within the current redline...there is definately power potential with higher revs (hp is a function of torque and rpm), so as long as the tuning is right to promote a higher redline he will make more power...and with proper tuning he will gain power across the entire rev band...
