Has anyone removed or disabled The VTCS??
- Thread starter Walker
- Start date
Little Beavis
Member
- :
- 2001 MP3-T (#911)
Hey, that's odd about the bent butterfly. Sorry, I had no idea. Basically I pulled the thing out of the box, took pictures and put it back in. Heck, I sent it to you in the same box I got it from perf in.
Sorry though. . .I feel bad, but I didn't know.
As for the VICS you could control it with some of the piggybacks out there. I know the MPI has an output that you could set based upon RPM, temp, MAP/MAF, or deflection (or any combination thereof), thus you could control the VICS as you ask. It would be very interesting to try that (maybe if I ever find some free time I could mess around with it), but that won't be for a long time.
Sorry I missed the thread over the past few weeks (forgot what thread it was). Oh well.
Sorry though. . .I feel bad, but I didn't know.
As for the VICS you could control it with some of the piggybacks out there. I know the MPI has an output that you could set based upon RPM, temp, MAP/MAF, or deflection (or any combination thereof), thus you could control the VICS as you ask. It would be very interesting to try that (maybe if I ever find some free time I could mess around with it), but that won't be for a long time.
Sorry I missed the thread over the past few weeks (forgot what thread it was). Oh well.
perfworks said:
I would hope so for Mazda's sake, that's a helluva lot of engineering to do if there's NO gain, unless it's emissions oriented.
Little Beavis- No prob,man, I've looked at it pretty close and I can't see any evidence of it being ...ummm...."manipulated". either purposely or accidentally, no scratches or marks on the butterfly or screws. That's why I was wondering if for some reason it's like that from the factory, you know, different breathing needs on different cylinders, but the change would be so negligible I can't see why that would be. It's no biggie to pop it off and straighten, or if I get industrious I could take one off my mani when I swap them out.
i still dont get it...
what are vics and what is vtcs.
perfworks removed the butterflies that are placed in the end of the intake...which are those?
Because, let me tell you something...I dont know if its the vics or vtcs, because when my car hits 4750rpms, the pull is like ******* badass, even harder than my friends' GTS or CivicSI.
I may take a video...im sure it will be noticed.
could it be the open loop?
what are vics and what is vtcs.
perfworks removed the butterflies that are placed in the end of the intake...which are those?
Because, let me tell you something...I dont know if its the vics or vtcs, because when my car hits 4750rpms, the pull is like ******* badass, even harder than my friends' GTS or CivicSI.
I may take a video...im sure it will be noticed.
could it be the open loop?
VTCS- the butterflies across the runners right at the head, they are closed to 3000rpm when the car is closed, basically act like a choke on a carburetor.
VICS- the butterflies are not across the actual intake runners, but close off a chamber that is seperate but next to the plenum and below the runners. They are located about midway down the runner, they open at 4750rpm and basically induce an extra charge of air, and open up some volume, to help top end.
That clear it up some?
VICS- the butterflies are not across the actual intake runners, but close off a chamber that is seperate but next to the plenum and below the runners. They are located about midway down the runner, they open at 4750rpm and basically induce an extra charge of air, and open up some volume, to help top end.
That clear it up some?
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
vtcs - variable tumble control system
vics - variable inertia charging system
gee mazda thought long and hard about those names!
vics - variable inertia charging system
gee mazda thought long and hard about those names!
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
just spend whatever you would spend on another IM and P&P the stock IM. much easier and will yield very good benefits
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shinzen said:
It's old technology and more thna likely will not give you more power.
Like twilight said, keep what you have stock, maybe remove the VTCS and go from there.
VICS technology is actually good...
Or get the FS-ZE intake mani, which is a proven power increase.
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
yes vics is a good system, just carried out poorly.
and yes, a good p&p will yield 25% increase in air flow. just think of a cylinder. say the stock is 30mm in diameter. that's a cross area of 706.55mm2. and that's rough. increase the diameter to 35mm (not much of an increase really) and you get 961.63mm2 area and that's smoother. just the area is a 27% increase....then you start talking about decrease in turbulance and flow....50% increase in flow isnt that difficult to get
and yes, a good p&p will yield 25% increase in air flow. just think of a cylinder. say the stock is 30mm in diameter. that's a cross area of 706.55mm2. and that's rough. increase the diameter to 35mm (not much of an increase really) and you get 961.63mm2 area and that's smoother. just the area is a 27% increase....then you start talking about decrease in turbulance and flow....50% increase in flow isnt that difficult to get
That actually comes from perfworks, from what I understand, it is single runner, no VICS, I like the idea of extrude honing it, or maybe a mild port and just smoothing, but I think I'm going in a little different direction from twilight now, I'm looking at smoothing airflow and increasing velocity to try to build torque. A single runner without any obstructions would suit me, but right now I've got a ported stock P5 mani and an MP3 mani to play with. I'm going to see what they can do first, well, after I get some cams, if Sunbelt would ever get them released, grrrrr.... I would think there are also some concerns with the probe, or is it 626?, mani just "bolting up". Stuff like the EGR valve, fuel rail, throttle cable, cruise (if you want to keep it). But they are cheap.shinzen said:
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- 09 370Z Nismo
VICS open up the plenum(intake manifold air chamber) and give the chamber more displacement. Normally your plenum displacement must be 50-70% larger than your engine displacement. I suppose when the VICS opens up it makes the plenum go from something like 50% bigger than displacement, to 70% displacement when open.
In all honesty, I would suggest keeping the stock IM in all applications and just port it out, and get rid of the VTCS.
VTCS is only for emissions and only chokes the car while under 3000rpm. Although I think it only chokes the car while it is cold, or while NOT at wide open throttle. Mainly it's to keep cold starting the engine from poluting the atmosphere too much.
So, to make your IM the best it can be, take it off, take out the VTCS butterflies near the head portion of the IM, and weld up the holes where the rod ran through. Then put the intake gasket on the manifold and port match it to the gasket, as well as port match the head to it. Then polish the casting of the intake manifold down to a nice smooth surface, and tada, you have one nice intake manifold at minimal cost, depending on if you do the work. To not get a check engine light when removing the VTCS system, just keep the little solenoid that turns the butterflies, plugged in, but not manually controlling anything anymore. The engine will think it's doing good. Just when having your emissions checked on your car, make sure the car is already warmed up. You will avoid failing.
BTW, Twighlight, if you remove too much turbulence from the IM after the injectors, the air and fuel wont mix well.
In all honesty, I would suggest keeping the stock IM in all applications and just port it out, and get rid of the VTCS.
VTCS is only for emissions and only chokes the car while under 3000rpm. Although I think it only chokes the car while it is cold, or while NOT at wide open throttle. Mainly it's to keep cold starting the engine from poluting the atmosphere too much.
So, to make your IM the best it can be, take it off, take out the VTCS butterflies near the head portion of the IM, and weld up the holes where the rod ran through. Then put the intake gasket on the manifold and port match it to the gasket, as well as port match the head to it. Then polish the casting of the intake manifold down to a nice smooth surface, and tada, you have one nice intake manifold at minimal cost, depending on if you do the work. To not get a check engine light when removing the VTCS system, just keep the little solenoid that turns the butterflies, plugged in, but not manually controlling anything anymore. The engine will think it's doing good. Just when having your emissions checked on your car, make sure the car is already warmed up. You will avoid failing.
BTW, Twighlight, if you remove too much turbulence from the IM after the injectors, the air and fuel wont mix well.
Anybody wanna do a how to with pics? I have always gone to a shop for stuff like this in the past, but you are making it sound a little too easy- the polishing I wouldn't have an issue with, but I am a bit concerned with the port matching- got a dremel but..... isn't there a pretty big chance of screwing things up royally?
Smoking Crack?
Just one HUGE problem with that explanation: At WOT there is low/no vacuum. Also you need short runners then, not l-o-n-g ones...
Low-end torque= low RPM= high vacuum (long runners needed not shorter ones)
Top-end power= high RPM= low vacuum (short runners needed not longer ones)
Are you sure you are not screwed up, or are Mazda engineers smoking Crack?
(uhm)perfworks said:Couple things, First you can eliminate the rattle two ways (for the VTCS ONLY) Adjust the lever screw right below the actuator. Second just unplug the vacuum line and plug it with a screw or something and clamp it.
The rattle comes from the plates hitting the reversion lip inside the manifold.
Second the VICS. The plates are open when manifold vacuum is not present. It is supposed to provide more low end torque.
When the plates open it adds more "capacity" to the system like a shorty manifold would for top end breathing. How well does it work? Ok for economy vehicles but a nice 98 626 manifold that is of single runner design would be much better for FI applications.
BTW the TB (no wiring difference) is the same and all that would need to be done is rerunning the fuel lines. You could keep the stock 626 injectors in there.
Just one HUGE problem with that explanation: At WOT there is low/no vacuum. Also you need short runners then, not l-o-n-g ones...
Low-end torque= low RPM= high vacuum (long runners needed not shorter ones)
Top-end power= high RPM= low vacuum (short runners needed not longer ones)
Are you sure you are not screwed up, or are Mazda engineers smoking Crack?
Last edited:
Turbo Matty P
Banned
I'm investing my money that they smoke crack.
