GTech Test: Grounding Kit

[twilightprotege]

flat_black - well done on the explainations, and good to see lots of details piccies as well...if only everyone who does things to their p5 or whatever backed up what they do like that...

anyway, one lil question, have you (or anyone for that fact) tried like a spider patern (ie from battery negative terminal to each point) rather than a loop pattern (ie negative to throttle body to blah to blah to blah and finally back to negative terminal)???? i was thinking of doing it this way because it would be the quickest way for all power to get to the negative, and hence creating the line of least resistance from each point?????

what does everyone think?

later

 

[slenser]

Twilight, I'm not sure, but just from looking at the kits on ebay, it appears that they do just that. A wire from the battery to a terminal block, then distributes from there to each area. Again, I am only guessing from what I have seen of pictures of the kits.

I'm wondering if 4ga wire is a bit of overkill for this. I'm thinking 8ga would be sufficient. I mean, there really isn't much that is drawing THAT much current that it will require a ground that big. Besides, I don't have much of a selection of wire colors if I go with 4ga In all reality, I really don't want to be running red wires as a ground, just from an electronics point of view.

 

[twilightprotege]

yup...red wires just dont make electrical sence....but each to their own i spose.

i agree with the wire size issue...i thought way way way back in physics classes at school that you can go too big with wire size...depending on the amount of current going through, it can actually be more resistant than a smaller wire...can anyone shed some light on this???

later

 

[flat_black]

After doing the install, it had crossed my mind that I probably could have used 8 gauge without any difference, really, due to the minimal amount of current. However, with a low voltage and amperage, 10 feet of 8ga and 10 feet of 4ga seem to have the same signal quality. Probably at higher throughputs, there would be a difference, but I found none, really. 8 would be optimal, I think. =) And yes, red is very silly to use for a negative terminal. I would have much rather used black, however, I received red after ordering 'smoked', so I just worked with it. I'll throw some looms over it or something. *nods* As far as the spider-style design, I've tried that on my SVX, and got more or less the same result. A few horsepower, smoother idle, and all. So I dare say 4ga won't hurt (0ga probably would), but 8ga would work perfectly. The grounding method is really what you prefer. I followed HKS's Circle style, personally, just 'cause. =) Enjoy, those who are interested in trying!

 

[1sty]

http://www.protege5.com/vbb225/galleryuser.php?s=&userid=2930&gallery=groundkit/

There you go... I took a bunch of pictures of the install. Here's a list of where I grounded the cables to.

1.) Negitave Battery terminal
(I got a two 4 gauge and one 8 gauge terminal so I could retain the stock grounding points, too)

2.) The sensor off of the intake tube. I only did this to use up the spare piece of 4 gauge I had. =)

3.) Intake Manifold

4.) Fuel Rail

5.) Passenger Side Chassis

6.) Drivers Side Chassis

7.) Original Chassis Ground, a little more toward the Driver's Side from the battery.

8.) Negative Battery Terminal, again.

As you can see, I set it up a little like HKS' Circle Earth system, by returning to the same ground point where I started. After measuring resistances between the battery and the altinator, and the battery and chassis, after finishing this up, it seemed to drop the parasitic increase of resistance, the further I got from the battery. Definitly worth it. =) The engine idles smoother, responds faster, and, as forementioned, I gained about 3-4hp off of the install. Hope this helps!

Since this doesn't make any sense,

I command you to come down to Tweeter in Salem tonight and show me

 

[1sty]

Oh I forgot to comment on the gold.
Gold plating is used often becuase it does not easily corrode and is fairly conductive. Copper is a far better conductor but will oxidize in less then a day.
Silver is the best, But expensive as hell to use.
All of the terminals are just brass with gold plating.
Pretty much and form of iron will just corrode quickly.

 

[Kooldino]

Hmm, this wouldn't be a bad thing to do...get some 8ga wire...get a few guys together (anyone want to do it in south jersey?) and have a meet/grounding kit day.

 

[flat_black]

Hehee... Alright... What time are you working 'till? I get out sorta late, today (Driving back home from Boston, so late isn't actually that late )

Oh, I dropped by Tweeter in Manchester, and I asked if they had anyone working there with a turbo Mazda MP3, and they said no, but one worked in Salem.

"The bright blue one, right?"

But if you're there reasonably late, I'll pop in. Dunno who to ask for, though.

 

[1sty]

We close at 9 I am there 6-9 tonight. Yeah I work in salem only. Although everyone thinks I work in Manchestor for some reason.

Yes i hae a BLUE MP3, not exactly bright as I haven't washed it in a few weeks. Also there is NOTHING in it as I am rebuilding everything shortly.

 

[flat_black]

Hehee... Yeah, I know it was blue, was just mentioning that that's what the person said who I asked about you. If it weren't blue, it wouldn't be an MP3!

Anyway, I'll try and pop in if I can. I have to make a class tonight, so I might not be able to, but I'll try. Hope to see you then!

 

[1sty]

No worries I am always around.
The Caps were to eclimate the dirtyness of my car at the moment.

 

[BB Wulf]

So Ive been reading all this ground wire stuff for a while and thinking WTF. Went out and looked under the hood today and the first thing I notice is theres these dinky wires coming off the battery for the current return. Interesting. The longer I looked where people ran new wiring, the more sense it made.

If our engine wiring is like most, theres a single ground connection back to the battery via the chassis - not the lowest resistance path. Effectively were working with a series circuit with the various control elements and spark plugs as part of it, and the current return as the rest of it.

As an example, if the control elements have some resistance x and the return path represents resistance y then the total load to voltage and current is x + y. Since the total voltage will remain constant, if you do something to reduce the drop across y, then youll increase the voltage across x, meaning this part of the circuit should actually perform better - greater spark, faster solenoid response and so on.

Bottom line, it looks like Ill be running some new wires this weekend Thanks to everyone posting for some great information!

 

[1sty]

Actualy there are 2 stock grounds, one to the chassis up high and the other low by a engine mount. None the less neither are of large guage.

 

[slenser]

Yup, I just picked up some BLUE 8ga wire and some connectors today. I can't wait to see what the difference is. I'll probably do this in the next couple of days. I just wish I had the distribution blocks and such that the ebay kits come with.

If anyone knows where to pick us some of these cheap, let me know.

Sam

 

[slenser]

Ok, so I've been looking around under the hood. It seems that there are 2 8ga wires coming off of the negative already. Now I'm second guessing my decision in 8ga wires. I'm sure I will get an improvement, no matter what, but now I'm wondering if I should go bigger. Damn

 

[smithers_0990]

:wtf: Why cant I see the pics?

:'(

 

[twilightprotege]

it would be good if someone had a test thingie that could test the resistance/whatever of 8ga wire compaired to 4ga wire on a car system (and maybe compair brands etc)...then we could all make a really well educated decision on what wire is the best for our cars

later

 

[BlackMP5]

flat_black - well done on the explainations, and good to see lots of details piccies as well...if only everyone who does things to their p5 or whatever backed up what they do like that...

anyway, one lil question, have you (or anyone for that fact) tried like a spider patern (ie from battery negative terminal to each point) rather than a loop pattern (ie negative to throttle body to blah to blah to blah and finally back to negative terminal)???? i was thinking of doing it this way because it would be the quickest way for all power to get to the negative, and hence creating the line of least resistance from each point?????

what does everyone think?

later

It would be better to avoid a spider pattern.

The "rule" that is generally followed is to have each ground less than 18" regardless of what you are grounding. Mainly because the longer the ground, the more the resistance. Not to say that you can't go over 18", just the shorter the distance between the ground points, the less resistance between each ground point. (Think of an amp, you don't run that ground up to the engine compartment, you ground it as close as possible to the amp). I am going to be doing this mod this week w/ 4 guage, and am going to TRY to keep all of them below 18". I will post my findings soon.

 

[BB Wulf]

Ok, some really quick and dirty calculations: 8-gauge wire should reduce ground resistance by about 50%, and 4-gauge would give around a 70% reduction. (These numbers are assuming an existing ground path of 12 of 8-gauge wire and 24 of chassis times two connections to the engine block, versus a copper wire ran straight from the negative battery terminal to the engine.) And keep in mind that youre dealing with resistance measured in the thousandth of an ohm, so any connections need to be carefully prepared to minimize loss.

A cheap source for large gauge wire and appropriate connectors? The Wal-Mart automotive department - look for the amplifier hook-up kits. Prices range $10-$20. You even have some color choices.

 

[flat_black]

*yaaawns* Well, I officially missed my class yesterday, but that was due to crappy traffic. =) Got to meet up with 1st, though, which was cool. Y'all should visit him if you're in the area. Apparently business is slow at Tweeter. Hehee.

Yeah, the only real consistant thing with grounding kits is the suggestion to keep ground wires below 18 inches, if possable. Also, I like to use oxygen free wire, which Mazda doesn't use stock. =) Heh.