GI: 505 Intake Manifold Round 3

[505zoom]

What was wrong with the engine flange to need a new design?

A lot of people had to swap over to the 626 injector o-rings to get them to fully seal. The old design had the hand-fabbed fuel rail mounts, which wasn't as perfectly consistent as machining them. The new design will ensure that every single manifold has a perfect rail/injector geometry, with no need to swap the o-rings.

In addition to that, the new runners are going to be oval shaped for their entire length. This will eliminate the old way of using a jig and die to press the round tubing down to an oval on the end. Since the new oval tubing is a little bit different size than the old round ones after getting pressed, the main flange had to be altered for that as well.

 

[clement_ghost]

So I guess the velocity stacks will also be oval?! Isn't it better for the stacks to be round?

I know I got a lot of questions but I'm pretty curious of the process and engineering of that part. I've read a few about making myself a custom intake manifold and it looks much more complex than making an exhaust manifold, there's much more things to calculate (flow, helmholtz, plenum capacity, runners lenght, etc...) while an exhaust manifold you just gotta merge all the cylinders together.

Congrats for getting this all understood buddy!

Keep us posted, I like to see the progress and why you chose to make some modifications/improvements.

 

[505zoom]

So I guess the velocity stacks will also be oval?!

Correct.

Isn't it better for the stacks to be round?

Not necessarily.

I know I got a lot of questions but I'm pretty curious of the process and engineering of that part.

It's all good.

I've read a few about making myself a custom intake manifold and it looks much more complex than making an exhaust manifold, there's much more things to calculate (flow, helmholtz, plenum capacity, runners lenght, etc...) while an exhaust manifold you just gotta merge all the cylinders together.

Congrats for getting this all understood buddy!

Yeah it is definitely more complex than making an EM, no doubt. All of the key dimensions will be carried over from the 1st/2nd gen, in order to make sure that it performs just as well as they did. I never had a single complaint about the actual performance of the manifolds, and just about everybody posted that they immediately noticed major gains. Every before and after dyno showed results in the 8-12% neighborhood for peak power gain, which is really right about where it should be.

The hard part was done almost 10 years ago with the design of the first gen, and the new ones will just be a more refined version of the same thing. Performance gains should be identical.

Keep us posted, I like to see the progress and why you chose to make some modifications/improvements.

I definitely will. Things are going to be moving a lot faster now and I will be posting a lot more updates.

 

[callphy]

some area might need EGR to do emission test or safety test?

 

[clement_ghost]

What do you think about making a dual plenum intake manifold?

 

[505zoom]

some area might need EGR to do emission test or safety test?

That's why I'm hoping we can just trick the CEL.

 

[505zoom]

What do you think about making a dual plenum intake manifold?

Not gonna happen.

 

[505zoom]

Boom.

 

[clement_ghost]

Time to fap!

 

[Hammo]

Sexy!!

 

[clement_ghost]

Will it need a bracket behind to prevent from cracking under vibrations? (Like the OEM IM)

 

[505zoom]

Will it need a bracket behind to prevent from cracking under vibrations? (Like the OEM IM)

Nope.

 

[TURBOJ1]

Shut up and take my money....Please!!

 

[505zoom]

Shut up and take my money....Please!!

Haha. Very soon my friend. Machine shop is already milling the new main flange today for testing, but I am almost 100% certain that we nailed it perfectly this time. Will have pics of the actual piece tonight or tomorrow.

(rockon)

 

[CR3 Motorsports]

=)

 

[paniaguae640]

Are we still doing payment plans like previous gbs?

 

[505zoom]

Yep.

 

[ZealoustheEnder]

Omg this manifold looks sick!

 

[mazdaastina1999]

Damnnn Rich, you nailed it again mate.... whatta masterpiece!!!... So we be having these badboys by next month so yeah???

 

[505zoom]

I don't know about quite that quick, but I am definitely going straight into production after the prototype passes full testing.

I will be doing accelerometer testing versus my original proto, which was functionally identical to the gen 1 that I dyno'd and the gen 2's that other people have dyno'd. If there are any major differences on the accelerometer (not expecting any) I will re-dyno. Other than that it's really just fitment testing, flow bench testing, and an FEA analysis to make sure we haven't overlooked anything that might pop up down the road.

As for the actual production, time from deposit to delivery is going to be DRASTICALLY reduced, which is up there in the top 3 reasons for the full redesign. There are 5 major things that will reduce the production time:

1) The shop doing the machine work will be doing it on shop time instead of after hours, so I won't have to wait weeks for each step.

2) The runners do not have to be formed and then tweaked to fit.

3) The fuel rail mounts don't have to be added by hand.

Those 3 combined mean that Wes can probably assemble and weld 3 manifolds per night instead of just 1.

4) The fuel injector bosses don't have to be machined AFTER the runners get welded (which was unfortunately a mandatory step with how the old manifolds were constructed, and it was also a gigantic pain in the ass).

5) The runner cups are much further away from the mating surface of the flange, and the extra thickness will make it way less likely to warp during welding. This means that we MIGHT be able to get away with not flycut surfacing the main flange after assembly, which was another major pain in the ass (we'll just see on this though... might still do it anyway).

The only thing that is going to take longer (and will more than offset the money saved from eliminating the other steps) is the construction of the new plenum, but my plan is to have those made at the same time as the flanges are being machined since it will be 2 different shops handling each, so time-wise we'll still be way ahead.

So all said and done we're going to be looking at a matter of weeks instead of months for the actual production. (evil)