Get rid of understeer?

[dugrant153]

Was watching a video by Top Gear on AWD vs FWD vs RWD.

They chose RWD in the end (which kinda surprised me) but anyways, that's besides the point.

The thing is the FWD Alfa Romeo did really poorly on all their tests, which is where they pushed the cars to the limit of traction. FWD understeered all the time.

Soooooo... my question is, how can we get rid of understeer or atleast smooth it out?

I'm interested in staying in H-stock with a Protege, so was thinking of a bigger front sway bar?

 

[kurt]

A bigger front bar will not reduce understeer, but it will work to correct oversteer; possibly giving you more understeer. Some H-Stock cars do run a bigger front bar to give them better turn in response (I think). Some may even remove the front bar all together, but I'm not quite as certain about that one.

To reduce understeer you could raise the pressure in the rear tires. I usually run 50psi in the rears when I auto-x. Running a bigger rear bar is the most common solution, but that's not allowed in H-Stock.

Certain driving techniques can also be used to counteract understeer.

I'm sure someone knows how to compensate (somewhat) for understeer with the use of aftermarket/custom struts, but I don't know enough about them to comment.

 

[soulstylee]

Stiffer springs, better valved struts, rear strut bar, in addition to the mentioned rear sway bar will all help achieve more oversteer.

 

[70]

Stiffer springs, better valved struts, rear strut bar, in addition to the mentioned rear sway bar will all help achieve more oversteer.

And throw you well out of H-Stock...

By the way, the sedan doesn't need a rear strut tower bar, the wagon could benefit from one.

A bigger rear sway bar is the easiest.

 

[luwe]

get wider tires in the front so that you have more traction there. doesn't matter if it looks funny since you're only going to need it during your autocross runs

 

[TheMAN]

shocks are legal in stock class you know

And throw you well out of H-Stock...

By the way, the sedan doesn't need a rear strut tower bar, the wagon could benefit from one.

A bigger rear sway bar is the easiest.

 

[kcbhiw]

Since you are wanting to remain in a stock class, you could remove the front bar or use a smaller bar. That could have its obvious disadvantages. In addition to what the other folks stated about using wider tires in the front and higher tire pressures in the rear, you could implement a set of adjustable struts (Koni and KYB AGX are good choices -- note that I haven't looked into the availability for the Proteges). Adjust them so that the rear is stiffer than the fronts. A combination of one or more of these items can result in a better turn in.

 

[dugrant153]

I guess that at the limits of adhesion, even with proper tuning with shocks and bars, the car will still push? Or do the characteristics change?

edit: I'm planning on using the same setup for daily driving

 

[70]

shocks are legal in stock class you know

I know, but springs aren't...Which were mentioned in the post I quoted.

 

[kurt]

I guess that at the limits of adhesion, even with proper tuning with shocks and bars, the car will still push? Or do the characteristics change?

edit: I'm planning on using the same setup for daily driving

It depends on how competative you'd like to be in H-Stock. I found that I didn't have too much understeer when I autocrossed; only when I overdrove the car did I notice the front end washing out.

Another fix would be to get yourself a proper alignment. While this may increase tire wear on the street, it will improve your times on course.

You can get a FF car to handle neutrally, but it will take a great deal more skill to control it than you might be prepared for, not to mention a different driving style. What's good for the track, isn't necessarily good for the road.

 

[low_psi]

R-Compounds, struts, proper alignment, a good harness and seat time.

A member here won H-Stock in his Yellow P5.

 

[Installshield 2]

Actually stock P5's do not have terrible understeer compared to a lot of other small FWD cars...The extra weight over the rear wheels helps with neutrality...and yes driving style can make the biggest difference...turn-in throttle lifting etc..., some maniacs even do the old left foot braking technique...The notion of "braking before the turn, and accelerating through the apex" will cause almost any FWD stock car to plow at the limit...and in most cases it is the slowest way to negotiate a turn in a P5...It is too hard to judge how much to brake, or if you carried enough speed at the beginning of the turn for good lap times...

Carry a ton of speed into a turn and brake hard as you round the apex...I guarantee you will oversteer...

And any tricks you are allowed to do in your class that increase the stiffness of the rear suspension will help too...I would not recommend loosening the front up (particularly removing the front sway bar), you won't corner as flat and have even more problems with the open LSD...

 

[cbcbd]

Carry a ton of speed into a turn and brake hard as you round the apex...I guarantee you will oversteer...

(werd)

Scared the s**t out of me when I had to break hard while taking a downhill turn. That rear end really wants to come around.

 

[Installshield 2]

(werd)

Scared the s**t out of me when I had to break hard while taking a downhill turn. That rear end really wants to come around.

ha, it is even more fun in the rain...

 

[luwe]

speaking of wheel alignment, if you put some negative camber on the front, it should have more grip