Fs-ze + T - Need help/ideas
- Thread starter Kona051
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tweety2300
Member
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- 2001 mazda protege mp3
Please don't post about stuff you don't know.
I'll respond to the rest when I get home
O please do fill me in since I know nothing
Im not going to bother posting what I was going to post, its clear that the only real solution to going faster for you is boost. If you don't want to chase your tail and sink lots of money in replacing stuff all the time you can do your research and come up with your own conclusions.
197.6 was the most Installshield2 ever made from his car, running a roughish tune (they tuned night before). He never made 9k rpm the highest he ever revved AFAIK was about 8200 rpm in final street build. His earlier builds ran up to 8500rpm but didn't produce anywhere near his final recorded power figure of 197.6.
He never used titanium internals, he had titanium wrist pins however. Otherwise the rods and pistons where made out of forged aluminum
Saying his engine didn't make power till 6k rpm is rubbish. The power band and torque curve will have moved up with the modifications and increase in rpm but running 13.1:1 compression means that his down low power wouldn't have been hurting bad at all. Actually his cam specs resemble a little the twiggy specs so they weren't incredibly wild.
With what rods and supporting mods? What engine? How'd he get 10:1 compression?
The FS-DE uses the G15M-R. The Sport20 the OP has uses the G25M-R.
Id say the transfer case would be the weakest link for the OP. Also @OP the only company that made headers for the 4wd were Autoexe so what ever you get will need to have modified to have the s added. (Should just be able to be bent or cut and some bent pipe added on...)
EDIT: Wasn't saying you know nothing man, just that when you don't know about something don't post about it. There's nothing worse then misinformation being spread around. Something that all car forums can really do without
197.6 was the most Installshield2 ever made from his car, running a roughish tune (they tuned night before). He never made 9k rpm the highest he ever revved AFAIK was about 8200 rpm in final street build. His earlier builds ran up to 8500rpm but didn't produce anywhere near his final recorded power figure of 197.6.
He never used titanium internals, he had titanium wrist pins however. Otherwise the rods and pistons where made out of forged aluminum
Saying his engine didn't make power till 6k rpm is rubbish. The power band and torque curve will have moved up with the modifications and increase in rpm but running 13.1:1 compression means that his down low power wouldn't have been hurting bad at all. Actually his cam specs resemble a little the twiggy specs so they weren't incredibly wild.
With what rods and supporting mods? What engine? How'd he get 10:1 compression?
The FS-DE uses the G15M-R. The Sport20 the OP has uses the G25M-R.
Id say the transfer case would be the weakest link for the OP. Also @OP the only company that made headers for the 4wd were Autoexe so what ever you get will need to have modified to have the s added. (Should just be able to be bent or cut and some bent pipe added on...)
EDIT: Wasn't saying you know nothing man, just that when you don't know about something don't post about it. There's nothing worse then misinformation being spread around. Something that all car forums can really do without
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tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
There was someone else besides install shield in the 190s that used titanium rods I'll see if I can find the thread but it was forever ago in the protege section. I'm pretty sure he was using a stroker crank too but can't remember
His Honda has stock rods, aftermarket pistons, stock spec head gasket. He has d16a6. Of course d-series are way stronger than the fs but I don't see why he couldn't do it with a good tune maybe rods. I'm pretty sure no one has done a high compression turbo build.
I've looked through many build threads and I do know what I'm talking about. If 170 whp is good enough for you go na if you want more than that turbo is the only way
His Honda has stock rods, aftermarket pistons, stock spec head gasket. He has d16a6. Of course d-series are way stronger than the fs but I don't see why he couldn't do it with a good tune maybe rods. I'm pretty sure no one has done a high compression turbo build.
I've looked through many build threads and I do know what I'm talking about. If 170 whp is good enough for you go na if you want more than that turbo is the only way
Hi there Ice, im not saying i dont want to go N/A, i would rather go N/A as i like the idea of that rather than a turbo, but i have a few questions on this. If i want to increase compression i either get a thinner head gasket or high compression pistons, these are the two easy to increasing compression. As far as i know, no one makes high compression pistons for the fs-ze, eg a 11.0-1 compression piston. So then you would think to go for a thinner head gasket, as you said earlier, But my questions that come with this are, How are valve clearances when it comes decreasing the head gasket thickness, and also, if you decrease the size of the head gasket, your going to throw the timings out, so sure you increase the compression but your retarding the engine, so the gain you get from one is put down by the other. So is it then possible to get adjustable cam gears or something along the lines of that to fix this? Cause to me it seems that going the N/A is going to be so much for expensive, because you carnt just buy a thinner head gasket you have to get one made, and that will surely be a fair bit.
ALSO, to try and get the answer, what is the standard thickness of the head gasket on the FS-ZE??
Thanks for all you help and opinions, it actually really informative and im learning alot!
Also my gear box is G25MX-R.
According to protege FAQ, how reliable is this source?
ALSO, to try and get the answer, what is the standard thickness of the head gasket on the FS-ZE??
Thanks for all you help and opinions, it actually really informative and im learning alot!
Also my gear box is G25MX-R.
According to protege FAQ, how reliable is this source?
Weisco make pistons to spec. Orion has a set of 11:1 compression pistons
Fine. I haven't done the numbers on all head gaskets but I was thinking of using a .030 myself.
My understanding was that for every thousandth it was about 1 degree. So essentially two thousandth decrease means that you'd be looking at about 2 degrees per cam. Using an off the shelf head gasket made by cometic is about 110 USD.
Unfortunately all off the shelf items move the cam sensor pickup meaning you will need to have some made. If your going NA just get someone to regrind your current cams to suit your new build problem solved as well as delivering a performance boost. win win.
Be careful of assuming things. This forum has a wealth of information if you go digging back to 03-08. People like Lord Worm, Xerlderx, Twilight, Gen1GT and of course Installsheild2. Theres a few work logs that will prolly interest you such as jimmsuites, CullRidR.
0.04. I think the mazdaspeed head gaskets thinner though
(emphasis on think)Yah appears i forgot the X
The G25M-R was used for the BP-ZEsThe guy who produces that page TheMAN has access to a hell of alot more information then most and has some pretty rare manuals so pretty reliable
I don't know of anyone else but if you find a worklog let me know
The stock crank is a beast tbh. Its true the OP could use aftermarket rods and create a high compression turbo. Only problem is its expensive as the MPS ecu wont work with high compression, the fs-ze ecu certainly wont which means he needs a full ecu or a piggy back (Take your pick but a SSAFC wont do IMO). I apologise for my earlier comments, its just on these forums for pretty much everyone its turbo or the highway there is no other option but turbo. I agree that turbo for US people makes more sense you guys have low compression engines relative to the rest of the world. For the rest of us its faaaaaar more expensive as we need to source all our parts (or pretty much everything) from the states or have it custom made, sourcing from states means shipping and paying in US dollars which isnt great due to exchange rate, custom made parts are expensive quality costs and labour is really expensive
. (We also need to pretty much rebuild the engine going turbo, just isn't practical on 9.7:1 compression stock) For the OP a set of rods delivered to his house will be about ~650 dollars NZD. Sourcing a manifold from Aus is the only thing the OP would need to source from outside NZ really for a nice little build. The rest, cams, intake, midpipe, exhaust can all be sourced from local shops making it far more practical and easier.@OP:
In the end man, which road you take is up to you. What you want out of it and how much money you want to spend. Id start with the basics IHE. Some suspensions mods cause going turbo will cost you a pretty penny. Most of the guys in the states who have gone NA have had to buy pistons and quite a few have used the 10.4:1 pistons in there build you have the advantage of already having them
You wont make as much power NA as you will Turbo thats a given, you are restrained to atmospheric pressure essentially. If you want to get fancy then you can develop a IM that will develop 4-7psi but thats a matter of money and time.
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tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
Can you elaborate on the intake Mani making 4-7 psi? I've never heard if this
Ice, would planning the cylinder head be the same as getting a thinner head gasket? If it is, this would be MUCH easier and cheaper. I might look into a cam regrind to maybe, what 256 degrees duration? whats you opinions? will also look into a nice 2.25 mandrel bent exhuast and some nice little headers, see how much it is to get them custom made as well. May end up being cheaper then getting them from aussie. Also learnt about that mazdaspeed FS-ZE. Exhuast cam goes from 230 - 241 duration with only 10 degrees overlap vs the 7 degrees with standard. Also they have the extractors standard. Nice looking too. This is an example - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=444546578 - But what caught me out was. They are FWD not 4WD. But your only get 5 extra HP, with the increased compression ratio, headers, larger cam. So im going to need alot more to make any more. Cause i always come back to the fact. Yes may show more for you guys, but i loose alot more power through my tranny.
This is going to have to be quick as i have assessment due tomorrow and I'm drastically behind.
The thing you gotta remember is that power isnt everything, its the shape of the power band and how quickly that power comes. Peaky engines may make power but they wont always be a good engine to drive daily or even around a track or twisties. Sometimes a mod doesnt really give you that much power but gives you something else in return. A good example is CAI, doesnt really net you a great gain but it does sound epic and your engine response improves alot and it sounds epic (did i mention this already?).
Not really, milling the head is changing the shape of the combustion chamber. I'm not sure how much overall effect difference this would have but from my understanding it'd be better to get a thinner gasket then to change the head. This is something beyond what I know so I won't make any assumptions you would really need to do your research, Lord Worm would know more.
Depends what the 256 degrees is quoted at? .50"? Gotta be careful that you compare cams using the same unit of measurement or whatever. Cams are typically done at an advertised duration which is very hard to compare to another set of cams with advertised duration so you really need to compare compare cams based on .50" or another figure.
The maths is pretty simple for a good header, do yourself a favour and work it out yourself and then just get someone to muck one up to your spec will cut the cost quite a bit. Specially as youd only need someone with good skills in welding and able to follow a design then
Yeah thats always puzzled me tbh man. I think it comes down to the exhaust and the ecu which is the exact same as yours, no difference in timings etc. The cam + Header + full tune with ECU should net you the 5HP + 7-10 hp for the tune everywhere on the curve.
The thing you gotta remember is that power isnt everything, its the shape of the power band and how quickly that power comes. Peaky engines may make power but they wont always be a good engine to drive daily or even around a track or twisties. Sometimes a mod doesnt really give you that much power but gives you something else in return. A good example is CAI, doesnt really net you a great gain but it does sound epic and your engine response improves alot and it sounds epic (did i mention this already?
).
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Just saw your looking into an N/A build as well. I will follow that and see how that goes. The headers you have, they come standard on the Mazdaspeed FS-ZE over here, that to me is the only way to tell them apart, but what i dont understand is they are all tiptronic. I havent seen one manual. Its wierd. Ok few question which you maybe to help with and confirm, in converstaion today with a guy who works with megasquirt ecus, he said he can set up a ECU, but he needs to know what type of crank sensor? is it a VR crank sensor? What does this mean? i saw it on another page on this forum, http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...EMS-Guide-for-FS-DE-98&highlight=crank+sensor . He also said he needs to know how many teeth, this i did not understand thought u might no, what does he mean by this? teeth on what. He also said If it has the drive by wire throttle body, then a cable will need to be attached to control it. To confirm it is cable?
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Basically a tuned ram intake manifold. Correctly designed it can achieve 7psi at the valves. Again its one of those things you can stagger to have a wider rpm band of 4psi or a smaller band of greater effect from my understanding. I'm really not an expert I paid very little attention to it when I was learning about it as it wasn't really all that helpful to my build. Its essentially to do with creating a manifold that has straight runners, tapered for maximum effect and is tuned for the highest order reflections you can. 2 or 3 being the only possible scenarios realistically.
When I find time Ill track down some literature for you, assignments
(Also i think LW posted about this somewhere on here).Megasquirt is something I know little about tbh man. I know off the shelf megasquirts have to be modified due to our ignition system or did im not sure if they still do. Im not sure on the crank sensor part tbh man, TheMAN tells me the crank sensors are the same everywhere.
But LW tells me the US lads use a 'bazillion tooth' crank sensor while the aussies/jdm use a 4 tooth hall effect sensor. I'm pretty damn sure LW is referring to the crank pulley trigger wheel here though
. When I get access to my engine I can take a look/photo for you though 
